[imwritehere1920]

@r-m-archer

Hey there! Thanks for your thoughts! And Merry Christmas! I hope you all are having a great holiday.

Yeah, our family used to have a fake tree for years until we lost it during a move to a new house. Then we started using a live tree. I never knew how soft a fresh cut pine could be!

 

R.M Archer Wrote:

“Looking at modern medicine vs. holistic medicine as institutions would be a very different conversation. XD”

Yes it would XD

We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master. — Ernest Hemingway

[imwritehere1920]

@crazywriter

I have a great-uncle who served in Vietnam; I don’t see him anymore because he lives on the East Coast. But I remember meeting him once when I was a kid. He seemed quiet, maybe depressed, and smelled of tobacco. My mom said he was once a very happy, out-going and fun uncle; but the war changed him drastically and never really spoke again.

I’d love to hear more about what happened to our soldiers when they returned, if you’d like to talk about it.  🙂

We are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master. — Ernest Hemingway

[Denali Christianson]

THIS THREAD MUST BE RESURRECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any topic ideas? If y’all don’t suggest any, I’ve got a couple which could be interesting. 🙂

"Where there's life, there's hope; and need of vittles."
-Samwise Gamgee

[Brian Stansell]

Hi Denali, @denali-christianson

Yes, please suggest away. 🙂
What’s on your mind?

Brian Stansell (aka O'Brian of the Surface World)
I was born in war.
Fighting from my first breath.

[Denali Christianson]

@obrian-of-the-surface-world

Alright then. How about one of these:

What should be the limits on violence in Christian books?

Predestination or free will? (because theological debates lol)

Is it possible to maintain innocence without living in ignorance? (something I’ve been contemplating for my next fantasy book…)

And if you have other ones, feel free to suggest! These are just to get people posting again…

"Where there's life, there's hope; and need of vittles."
-Samwise Gamgee

[Isaiah]

@denali-christianson

@obrian-of-the-surface-world

@taylorclogston

 

Alrighty I’ll be the first to throw down on this Friendly Debate Clearwater Revival (It’s a lazy joke, don’t think too hard about it.)

 

Violence in Christian Work?

I think it depends on the genre. Christian-written Adult/sci-fi/fantasy/other mature styles? Let it all in! The Bible has a lot (LOT) of violence and war in it. As long as the focus of the story isn’t shock-gore (think the Saw movies as an example), violence is a very real way to ground the story. Everyone understands pain and suffering; showing what people go through can be an effective way to make a main character sympathetic. If you’re writing a more teen/child style, perhaps dial it back to where you’d think it appropriate for your younger siblings/cousins/friends to consume.

 

Predestination or Free Will?

Hoo boy that’s a big question. This will more than likely boil down to what each author believes. Either can certainly be used as story elements. Is there a prophecy about a chosen one to come and defeat a great darkness or evil? That could be considered predestination, and there’s prophecy in the Bible that refers to many different judges/prophets/heroes of Israel (and of course the Messiah). Is the story more about what the main character chooses to do in the bleakest and most demanding of times, and has to make decisions about what to do when faced with impossible choices? That’s a test of free will. I personally tend to enjoy stories where the characters have to struggle through their circumstances and are presented with difficult decisions, but that’s just me 🙂

 

Finally, can innocence exist without needing to be ignorant?

I believe so, yes! Innocent mainly means not guilty of a crime, but the meaning referenced here is “pure and without deceit or guile.” Many many stories have a (usually young) character start with CHILDLIKE innocence which usually has a lot of ignorance baked in. That’s completely fine. We get to see their personality and character (haha) grow as they go through their journey. The factor that can decide whether they choose to accept and face the evil or darkness in the world. If they ignore it and choose to say that it doesn’t exist, that would be ignorant innocence.

A good example of informed innocence would be Frodo in the LOTR movies. Yes, I’m talking about the movies because his character in the books is a bit different in general, especially when talking about childlike innocence. BUT. In the movies he is fully aware of the evil and danger in Middle Earth and what that means for him personally. He chooses to remain innocent and uninfluenced by Sauron’s power (until the last five minutes at the volcano at least). Frodo knows the bad but chooses to remain fully good and faithful that the greater good in the world will prevail.

I hope that my thoughts can help to kick-start the discourse on these topics, they’re good thought provokers for sure!

• This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Isaiah. Reason: Adding in @'s

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
-Quipmaster 2005

[Crazywriter]

@denali-Christianson

im glad you resurrected it! I kinda want to hear yours and @obrian-of-the-surface-worlds opinions on the Predestination/freewill argument before I go, cause I may or may not have a very very long paragraph on it. Regarding that topic tho I think David Clotfelters Sinners in the Hands of a Good God makes a remarkable argument for the sovereignty of God in salvation.

Ooh, war violence? I think it’s an interesting question. Personally I feel it depends on the point you’re trying to get across. For a YA fantasy focused on youthful adventure, it may not be such a priority, or it may not even be helpful. But if you’re writing a historical fiction portraying the futility of war, it would be essential to have war violence or at least the consequences thereof to accurately communicate your point.

About innocence without ignorance, I think not. In a perfect world, or a perfect person, yes, but as our world is fallen and we are sinful, we cannot resist sinning, thus we lose our innocence. I think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a good example. It gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil, as well as good. But as they were in a fallen world, as fallen humans, without divine aid they could not retain innocence.

that’s just my twopence

 

 

[Isaiah]

@crazywriter

Predestination can be a tricky thing to discuss, even just between different “flavors” of Christianity. I’ll look forward to what you say about it if we get into it as an actual discussion about our beliefs.

I agree, the Tree in Eden is a great example of (as far as the Bible says) the first and last time humanity had true innocence in a spiritual sense. After that we were all changed by sin and will forever live in sin. Do you think that we have a higher “level” of innocence after being saved and reborn as God’s children? As we live we try to strive toward as close to sinless as we can, do you think that innocence can be measured on a scale (for lack of a better phrase) or is it more of a binary system? You’re either innocent or not? Does that have to translate to story characters or can we imagine more “perfect” examples of humanity in our work? Curious to know your thoughts.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
-Quipmaster 2005

[Crazywriter]

@alertingthbs

Yeah, I totally understand the use of Frodo. I guess I understood the questions as relating to history and life, and not so much as a writer or author. Definitely in stories you can create innocent characters for a certain purpose. But in real life, no, no one is innocent(Romans 3:23)

Positionally, those in Christ are Seen by the Father as spotless, pure and completely innocent. But it’s because of him. Take away Christ’s work, his grace, his love, and we are again filthy beggars that are doomed for hell. Fortunately God will never take away that work, nor would he ever desire to do so, so we have assurance of salvation. But that’s positional. Christians, like non-Christians sin every day. Experientially we are still sinners. We have no innocence of our own. Christ is our only plea. If we strive for righteousness apart from him, we attempt a futile task. Christ is the only way, the only truth, and the only life. And apart from him, there can be no innocence.

 

[Emily Waldorf]

Denali Christianson wrote:

Predestination or free will? (because theological debates lol)

Yes to both! They’re not mutually exclusive. 🙂

Hier steche ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen. ~Martin Luther

[Crazywriter]

@emily-Waldorf

While there is a definite truth in what you say, Calvinism and Arminianism are irreconcilable in their truest sense. Predestination and free will aren’t as much, but there is still a wide chasm. While there is a definite sense that God will not drag someone kicking and screaming into the kingdom against ‘their will’ our will is hopelessly set on sin, and unless God intervenes we are dead to him. Not only that but we hate him. There is no possible way we can choose him. Arminians say God chooses us because he foresees that will choose us, which I beleive scripture rebuts time and again. Nothing in ourselves would warrant such selection. And our free will could not help us. Salvation is only The work of God and I beleive those that emphasize mans choice more than Gods sovereignty spit in the face of his power and providence. That being said there are dear, dear people that hold to Arminianism, and I do not wish to die on the hill of predestination vs free will

[Emily Waldorf]

@crazywriter

I agree! One of my favorite pithy sayings is “My will is free. God’s will is free. God’s will is freer than my will.”

The only reason I say that they are not exclusive is b/c I have a slightly different view of free will than I think others might. You see, we will freely choose God, but not until he has regenerated our will. Every aspect of our lives is fallen, and until the Lord changes our hearts we hate him and will never ever choose him.

Hier steche ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen. ~Martin Luther

[Isaiah]

@emily-waldorf

I come from an evangelical, then baptist, then non-denomination background (very weird progression but we tried a few different churches growing up and then I moved for work). I personally believe that salvation is granted by God to those who choose to accept Christ as their savior. It’s a bit tough for me to figure how predetermination and free will can both happen and not have one “override” the other. Can you give your thoughts on this? I’d love to discuss it!

@crazywriter

I’m sorry, the way you worded things confused me a little. Are you saying that both predetermination and free will take part in salvation but free will is more important? Or were you trying to say that God’s predetermination in any part of it isn’t involved in salvation?

I do agree that God won’t force someone into a relationship of salvation with Him. We can be stubborn when He wants to work on a character flaw in us but that’s after we trust and have faith in Him.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
-Quipmaster 2005

[Crazywriter]

@alertingthbs

No sorry, what I meant is that if God is not sovereign in salvation, salvation doesn’t happen. My belief is that God must change our desires. He chooses us according to his great purpose(Ephesians 1)

No I am firmly a Calvinist, and I believe those that attribute salvation  to humans choosing God are making salvation dependent on them. Scripture is clear that the whole point of the Bible is that we are dependent on him.

@emily-waldorf

 

Actually I think you have a pretty common view, one that I would agree with. Salvation is initiated by God and he changes our desires so that our hearts of stone are made into hearts of flesh so that we now are able to choose him. But the thing is, only by his grace, even with this regenerate will, can we choose him. Salvation completely depends on God

[Crazywriter]

@allertingthbs

 

That’s interesting! What did you think of the denominations that you moved around to and from?

[Author]

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