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Excuse the title, I couldn’t think of a good one and I figured that would make you want to click here more than anything. Let’s face it, your curiosity is what brought you here isn’t it?
So back in July the topic of the weekly newsletter, was discussing a question. The question was sent in by a young girl with a gift. Aka, ME. The question was this: “How do I write a strong, kick-butt female character without making her a total feminist?”Â
This may not be a struggle of yours, but it is to me.
I am not a feminist and I don’t want my story to sound like it’s all feminist but I still enjoy having female protagonists. I do not believe it’s biblical for women to be over a man but I don’t think we’re wimps either haha. If you didn’t get the email but your interested to see what @hope-ann responded with, let me know. She had a wonderful response!
So my question for you is, how do I write a strong, kick-butt female character without making her a total feminist?
I know this is a controversial topic, but if you don’t mind I’d like to keep this thread argument-free so if you don’t agree just pass on without saying anything please. I’m all for a good debate, but I don’t want to cause any arguments haha
I am tagging some people but if you don’t agree just ask me to not tag you in this thread again. Thanks đ
@skylarynn @obrian-of-the-surface-world (I know you’re a guy, but I would personally love to hear your say on this, if you agree with me) @joelle-stone @kylie-wingfeather @daeus-lambBe weird. Be random. Be who you are. Because you ever know who would love the person you hide.
Hi Erynne!
So my question for you is, how do I write a strong, kick-butt female character without making her a total feminist?
That is a very good topic and question. I am very glad you asked that question, because the modern depiction of “tough” females, especially in Marvel Movies is so annoying. I actually enjoyed the character of Wonder Woman in the DC film (the first one) more. Notice that she does wear elegant clothes, and she has no shame in falling in love with the character of Steve Trevor. Didn’t see WW 1985, so I cannot speak to that version. They probably went “feminist” in it, so I don’t think I would care much for it.
The thing that frustrates me is depicting women (sans a superpower) that can seem to punch with the same PSI as a man. This is ridiculous.
If a woman must fight, I want it to be within the bounds of credulity. There are many attributes that are strengths that women have naturally in spades. For instance, women tend to be more naturally adept at multi-tasking than men. I think this is part of God’s design, because He knew that woman as mothers were more capable of managing the needs of children that are running around and needing so many things and oversight, just to keep them out of mischief. A father has a hard time managing to do many things well at once, especially when the needs of more than one child converge upon him at once. A woman’s natural gift, helps her, not just in the rearing of children, but also in managing a complex and demanding schedule of successive and pressing events that converge in a short span of time.If you think about it, immersed in a battle with multiple fighters on either side, multi-tasking provides her with an advantage in that respect.
A man may be hyperfocused on his direct opponent, but miss threats coming from surrounding opponents.
A female’s fighting style should rely on precision and speed, rather than brute strength and power.Hand-to-hand combat should be avoided where possible, in my mind. I cannot see women being believable grapplers or brute wrestlers unless they are matched with someone of comparable size and strength level.
I think depicting a woman in combat against a man, subconsciously breaks down the aversion to men “hitting a female”. I cannot stand the level of brutality directed at women that seems to be cheered on whether overtly or subconsciously by modern films.
Part of feminity is the ability to nurture and be cherished. I think the idea of male chivalry should be brought back and championed again. Many women are naturally tough and undergo much more pressure than we are cognizant of, but they also have a precious vulnerability that needs to be protected and guarded. A jaded female that hates all things male or associated with males, tends to be a woman harboring internal emotional wounds dealt out by abusive men. Men and women alike have a sinful nature because of the original fall, but they have tendencies that are particular to their natural complementary positions assigned by their Creator. For instance, a woman may find it easy to naturally love someone but have difficulty understanding that respecting them is also important as well. Men have a deep inner need to be respected by a woman. That is why God, through scripture charges wives to respect the position of authority, God has placed upon them, with regard to the spiritual leadership of their family. I think this is the true meaning of “submit to your husband” in Ephesians 5:22. It affirms her love for God, but it also honors and affirms her husband and lets him know she needs his leadership, rather than his “mothering” by her.
God created males and females to be joined in a complementary unit and become a formidable force of unity and togetherness. This harmonious and mutually beneficial relationship is the building blocks of a family and a stable society, by God’s foresight and design. A man may find it easier to communicate respect to a female, but communicating love to her (Ephesians 5:25) is the internal need she seeks from him. 1 Peter 3:7 includes “respecting” her, but also holding her in cherished deference.Too few stories show this mutually nurturing and symbiotic relationship in modern tales, but it is the key to true strength is through unity and complementary appreciation and thoughtfulness towards each other.
Does that answer your question?
Brian Stansell (aka O'Brian of the Surface World)
I was born in war.
Fighting from my first breath.Wow, yes I completely agree! You raised many good points.
One of my favorite female protagonists is Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games series. Although I enjoy the story and her character I don’t agree that a woman should be the overall “leader” of the army, if you will. I believe that should be the man’s role. Do you agree, biblically speaking?
Another favorite of mine is Jo March from Little Woman. I’m not quite halfway through the book, so I will be speaking mainly from what I’ve seen in the movies (1994 I believe, and 2019 versions). Although I love Jo and can relate to her more than any of them, she is a huge feminist. She doesn’t believe that a woman shouldn’t have the goal in life to get married and raise a family, and I completely disagree. That is what the God commands us women to do. However, Jo is a big tomboy like myself, but how do I incorporate that into female characters without making them seem feminist?
I’ve never seen any DC movies, but thank you for sharing that about Wonder Woman! That was very helpful!
Be weird. Be random. Be who you are. Because you ever know who would love the person you hide.
I agree with pretty much everything @obrian-of-the-surface-world said. I felt exactly the same way about Wonder Woman. (And yes, while the second movie had its redeemable moments… it was largely more feminist-ized than the first and just generally poorer quality imo.)
I might add that I often prefer for female characters to fight out of necessity or to protect those under their care. There are plenty of exceptions to this that I’ve liked just fine, so it’s by no means a definite rule; but there is something more relatable to me and more explicitly feminine, to my mind, in seeing female characters content to leave the fighting to the menâthose better suited to it and primarily responsible to defend their families and communitiesâwho will still step in when there’s no one else to fight (in the case of superheroes like Wonder Woman, this might mean when there’s no one else qualified to fight) or when their children (especially) are threatened.
She doesnât believe that a woman shouldnât have the goal in life to get married and raise a family, and I completely disagree. That is what the God commands us women to do.
To be fair, where this is expressly commanded in Genesis 1, both men and women are given this command. Women can be called to singleness just as men can (1 Cor. 7:8-9). Our primary goal ought to be to glorify God and use the gifts He’s given us in ways that are biblically appropriate. If that’s in marriage, fantastic. If not, we can still be faithful to use our gifts in a godly manner.
Now, I do think that women ought to be under some authority, whether it’s that of a husband or of a father or, in some cases, another godly leader whom the father or husband has temporarily delegated his own authority to. Which a lot of the women I know consider excessively conservative, but it’s what I believe is most biblical. I do think there are limitations to what a woman is biblically permitted to do as far as leadership goes, for that reason. But I don’t think that all women are primarily called to marriage and child-rearing. Probably most are (I’d include myself in that category), but not all. There are other godly vocations that women can pursue without violating the authority structure that God designed.
I think there’s a balance to be struck with acknowledging the authority structure God put in place (and putting that first) while also acknowledging that womanhood isn’t just one perfect box; there’s some wiggle room within the structure.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Worldbuilding enthusiast. Singer. Fan of classic literature.
I absolutely agree!!! Thank you for pointing out my mistake. At that moment my mind was focused on my belief that the woman’s main priority should be in the home rather than focusing on a job or trying to prove women’s equality to men, as Jo was. I absolutely agree with you though. đ
Is there anything you’ve picked up on from other writers or anything that you yourself have done to incorporate this into your writing?
I also have to say that I’m happy to know I’m not the only non-feminist female out there hahaha
Be weird. Be random. Be who you are. Because you ever know who would love the person you hide.
I did see the Hunger Games movies but unfortunately did not read Suzanne Collins’s books for the source material. I think the books are most often way better than the movies, so I would perhaps encourage you to read Louisa Mae Alcott’s “Little Women” as source material for Jo. I have a feeling she is not nearly as much a “progressive feminist” in the original book as the movies portray her to be. Hollywood pushes their own subversive agendas and they rarely ever treat the source with respect when they adapt it to the screen.
Think about it this way. If God’s design is for men and women to be mutually complementary and to live in harmonious unity, how God-honoring is it to belittle one another merely because of our created differences? When God created humans (and the animal kingdom) to be male and female in the Garden and called them “Good”, who are we to contradict Him? Any thinking differently needs to read Job 40:2 [including Job chapters 40 & 41] and subject themselves to Job’s comeuppance and humility before God.
There is nothing “not feminine” about a girl being a “tomboy” with similar likes to what some consider “boyish likes”. It is unfortunate that we categorize certain interests in terms of gender, for I think we gather a little too much under certain groupings. A girl may love to hunt, shoot, fish, ride motorcycles, drive fast cars, tinker with machines, woodwork, etc. but these are not exclusive “male” interests, and often you will find these “gender assigned” activities vary from culture to culture. Annie Oakley was every bit as good a sharp-shooter as any male in the sport. Just be authentic in what you like and are interested in and leave the labels aside. God does not give us certain (non-sin) tastes and delights and expects us not to explore them. He loves His children (boys and girls). He delights in us and created us to be unique individuals, but also complementary in how we unify under His ordination. Individuality means I don’t have to like football or ice hockey, merely because I am a male and “should like” contact sports. I may like fencing and polo, but that doesn’t make me any less male. I think we, male and female should spend less time denigrating each other and more time honoring God by learning to love one another in our created differences and uniqueness. God knew what He was doing. He does give us certain gender-specific responsibilities and calls upon all of us to serve one another with love for Him. He was the Servant Leader. (Matthew 20:28 & Mark 10:45) Each position God gives should be thought of in those terms, and not so much as a position of power over one another.
I want to be able to read a story where a woman embraces being female without having to resort to belittling a male or besting a male in the process. If she is being attacked by a male, definitely I want her to win and find a way to avoid the physical damage a man is capable of inflicting. If he leads with a fist, I am perfectly okay with her responding with a bullet or a blade. But if I have to be subjected to watching an arm-wrestling match pitting a male vs. a female, where the man has 18-inch biceps and the woman had 8-inch biceps and she wins, I cannot help but groan at such poor farcical fiction.Brian Stansell (aka O'Brian of the Surface World)
I was born in war.
Fighting from my first breath.At that moment my mind was focused on my belief that the womanâs main priority should be in the home rather than focusing on a job or trying to prove womenâs equality to men, as Jo was.
That makes sense! And I mostly agree with that. I certainly agree with the latter half; women who truly understand women to equal to men despite their differences don’t feel the need to prove it by taking on contrabiblical roles or putting men down.
Is there anything youâve picked up on from other writers or anything that you yourself have done to incorporate this into your writing?
I think it’s important to showcase a variety of strengths in female characters. Include the female characters who fight, but also include the ones who are healers, or mothers, or artists, or sisters, or who speak up about injustice or challenge others to grow or… any number of other things. Strength comes in many forms, whether you’re writing a male or a female character. We’ve adopted this societal notion that physical strength is the only one that counts, but integrity and compassion and wisdom and patience and many other things are equally as strong and importantâif not more so.
I also have to say that Iâm happy to know Iâm not the only non-feminist female out there hahaha
No, we exist. Though finding the ones who are even as conservative as I am in practice can be a challenge. I don’t think I’m as conservative as they come, but I’ve been surprised to discover how rare it is to find Christian women who don’t duck out from under their direct (non-abusive) authority as soon as they can. I’ve been blessed to be able to connect with a small handful of like-minded ladies through my blogs, and a couple others in person, but I’m still frequently the odd one out. So I know that feeling of “Yay! I can finally share my thoughts without people thinking I’m weird!” LOL.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Worldbuilding enthusiast. Singer. Fan of classic literature.
Yes. Exactly.
Speculative fiction author. Mythology nerd. Worldbuilding enthusiast. Singer. Fan of classic literature.
Honestly, Erynne, pertaining to your question…
Is there anything youâve picked up on from other writers or anything that you yourself have done to incorporate this into your writing?
…I am having a hard time finding anything in modern fiction that does not skew gender into a game of belittling one another because of creative differences.
I know in the OT case of the prophetess Deborah, she was reluctant to take the military leader and disgusted with the cowardice of the males to take the role. But when men fail to step up and are disobedient, God will still use the willing vessel regardless of their gender, as He did with Deborah. Shirking responsibility is cowardice, but God honors faith and obedience.
I do have a Deborah-type figure in my present story, who wears a mask and binds her hair under a head-scarf and leads a marauding team of horsemen raiders in resistance against the tyrannical king’s brutal Protectorate Guards which pillage and terrorize local villages. She is a Robin Hood type of character. The brutal regime does not know “Storm Hawk” is a female and would be very angry if they ever found out they were being bested and outsmarted by a woman. I find that particularly satisfying, for she is a clever girl and strategist, and has a good understanding of human nature which gives her a tactical advantage. She is a skilled archer and has quick reflexes and does multi-task very well, yet she is very feminine. She loves her husband and lost her twins to miscarriage after a tragic accident that she has trauma-blocked from her memory. She is driven, but also vulnerable, and kind. Her name is Maeven, and she is a delight to write.
Brian Stansell (aka O'Brian of the Surface World)
I was born in war.
Fighting from my first breath.HA, love the title!! This is the best article on Story Embers in my opinion, and addresses the topic perfectly!! Here: https://storyembers.org/the-biggest-lie-we-believe-about-strong-female-protagonists/
I agree with most if not all of the views in the article, so that’s my answer. đ
LOL, the title is hilarious since it has less than nothing to do with the topic XD
I wrote an immense piece in reply and I’m going to split it up in a few posts so it isn’t too overwhelming XD
I don’t have a lot to say on the general ethics or how you should biblically depict it, but I have a few points that are mainly for realism and if you decide to include women fighting.
@obrian-of-the-surface-world raised a point here I’d like to add to from my experience.Hand-to-hand combat should be avoided where possible, in my mind. I cannot see women being believable grapplers or brute wrestlers unless they are matched with someone of comparable size and strength level.
I have been doing HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) for the past two months. It includes longsword training and “ringen” or historical wrestling. The club is about 80% male, there are only three other women. HEMA has no destinction between men’s fighting and women’s fighting, and there are a lot of women in HEMA at large.
There is absolutely no distinction as for weight class or strength. As our coach put it “We don’t have that luxury. You don’t get to pick your opponents in real life.”
Ringen is full contact wrestling. It involves a lot of throwing, and it has happened on multiple occasions that a 5’4″ woman gets put against a 6’2″ man. And she’s perfectly capable of throwing him. Is she going to have a way harder time? Certainly. Is it going to take all your weight and excellent technique? Definitely. (Speaking from experience, you often end up literally dragging your opponent to the ground with your full weight) Is it possible? Without a doubt.
If you’re smaller and weaker than your opponent, you’re going to be at a disadvantage, and if you can keep out of that situation, you should, but if you do get into it, you can win.
Most martial arts include an element of technique, and grappling is one of them. If you execute the technique correctly, weight doesn’t make a difference. If you’re throwing your whole weight against someone while tripping them, they’re going down.
In swordfighting, this is amplified tenfold. When you have weapons, weight and strength barely make a difference. Being smaller doesn’t make you faster or more flexible. (Rather the opposite. If your opponent is taller they have dramatically more reach than you and you have to go twice the distance each time. A taller woman would have advantage over a shorter man.)
Because you do have weapons, it changes fighting rather dramatically. Weapons are incredible equalizers. Whether you get hit by a man or a woman, the sword can and will cut you. You don’t have to hit particularly hard to cut someone.
A femaleâs fighting style should rely on precision and speed, rather than brute strength and power.
So, I agree that women and men might use different ways to win, but I’d slightly change it. If you want to win against a larger and stronger opponent, you focus on technique. (As far as I’ve seen, speed is more a result of good technique) If your technique is good, you can win against someone much larger.
Even in the original manuscripts, they occasionally mention something like “this technique is good for when you’re fighting against an opponent who favors strength over technique.”
In short, women are physically capable of beating a male opponent. There are many factors to winning a fight and strength and weight are only two of them. They’ll be at a disadvantage, but it’s possible.
So, that was a purely technical aspect I wanted to adress đ
Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?
I did see the Hunger Games movies but unfortunately did not read Suzanne Collinsâs books for the source material. I think the books are most often way better than the movies, so I would perhaps encourage you to read Louisa Mae Alcottâs âLittle Womenâ as source material for Jo. I have a feeling she is not nearly as much a âprogressive feministâ in the original book as the movies portray her to be. Hollywood pushes their own subversive agendas and they rarely ever treat the source with respect when they adapt it to the screen.
Both of these are facinating case studies. And interestingly enough, they have similar arcs. Jo’s arc is trying to hold on to her dreams and identity against the force of society, and Katniss is trying to hold on to her sanity and agency against the force of society.
(I think the reason you both mentioned both these characters as feminist is because they both actively protest certain obligations that society enforces on them. Though I’d argue not necessarily biblical obligations.)
I haven’t watched either movie, but I’ve read all the beforementioned books (multiple times, those are some of my favorites đ )
One of my favorite female protagonists is Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games series. Although I enjoy the story and her character I donât agree that a woman should be the overall âleaderâ of the army, if you will. I believe that should be the manâs role. Do you agree, biblically speaking?
Hunger Games is especially interesting since in the books, it’s often stressed that Katniss isn’t in charge of anything. Especially in the last book, the people in leadership position try to take away all her agency and force her into a role as figurehead for people to crowd behind. She’s actively fighting against the revolution as often as she’s fighting for it. The revolution doesn’t care about her, they only care about what she can do for them.
I don’t know how it was in the movies, but in the books, Katniss literally has a complete mental breakdown by the end of Mockingjay, to the point where she tries to commit suicide. The last chapters are written like it’s happening in a dream, everything feels distant and unnatural, reflecting how Katniss is completely disconnected from life. It’s heartbreaking and an appropriate ending to Mockingjay. (A lot of people don’t like it, but I think it was perfect.)
She’s a puppet being shoved around for other people’s gain, and she knows and hates it.
Another favorite of mine is Jo March from Little Woman. Iâm not quite halfway through the book, so I will be speaking mainly from what Iâve seen in the movies (1994 I believe, and 2019 versions). Although I love Jo and can relate to her more than any of them, she is a huge feminist. She doesnât believe that a woman shouldnât have the goal in life to get married and raise a family, and I completely disagree. That is what the God commands us women to do.
I think this is a matter of nuance, and it may have been lost in the movies.
Jo never believes that women in general shouldn’t get married. When her sisters get married, she’s completely supportive of their decision. With Meg it was a little different, but for a different reason.She was resistant because she believed that John wasn’t good enough for her, and she was afraid that it would change her relationship with her sister, not because she believed marrige to be inherently bad. It was selfish of her, and she gradually grows to accept Meg’s relationship.
Throughout the books, Jo is very past-focused. She tries to preserve her relationships with her friends exactly as they were, without letting them change. (She gradually matures beyond this, but it’s a constant theme.)
I’m going to be talking mainly about the last half of “Good Wives” (It’s usually compiled with Little Women) because that’s where you see Jo’s development and struggle most prominently.
She rejects Laurie not because she doesn’t want to ‘waste herself’ on marrige, but because she sees that she and Laurie aren’t compatible and will eventually be unhappy. She wants to keep their relationship platonic because she sees that their futures aren’t aligned and they’ll end up making each other miserable. She loves Laurie, but she’s not in love with him.
Besides that, she feels like marrige will force her to give up parts of her identity if she wants to keep the peace. She doesn’t want to lose herself.
Laurie doesn’t take this well, obviously, because he seems to think that it was the natural next step in their relationship without thinking beyond.
Gradually, in the last part of the book, after Beth’s death, Jo is alone. Amy and Laurie are away, Meg is married, and Beth died. She’s incredibly lonely as her whole family has grown up and left her behind, clinging to a past that will never come back.
(In the book, she writes a poem that illustrates this beautifully. You’ll know what I mean when you see it.)
She’s torn between giving up her writing, her ambitions, her independance, and everything she always dreamed about for companionship and even romance. Anything to replace the emptiness in her life.
Her relationship with Professor Baer is different from her ‘relationship’ with Laurie. She doesn’t feel like she has to change herself or her future to maintain a relationship with him, and that’s why she eventually gets married.
Personally, I love Jo’s arc. It’s meaningful and the outcome is satisfying. It feels like Jo is more herself with Professor Baer than she is by herself.
TL;DR, Jo never opposed marrige, she was afraid of it. She supported her sisters’ decisions to get married, but her own lies were getting in the way of a meaningful relationship. She grew beyond that.
(I might have spelled marrige incorrectly every time but y’all are going to have to live with it XD)
Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?
I want to be able to read a story where a woman embraces being female without having to resort to belittling a male or besting a male in the process.
I agree with you here. I often see the problem of fantasy where authors find it a necessity to assume that the problems of this world are directly transferred without considering cultural background.
On that same note, I think it would be awesome to see a book where a woman is in a position of authority (either via bloodline or necessity) but isn’t forced to prove herself. It’d be really cool to just see people not questioning her just because she’s a woman but just accepting her as capable.
There is nothing ânot feminineâ about a girl being a âtomboyâ with similar likes to what some consider âboyish likesâ. It is unfortunate that we categorize certain interests in terms of gender, for I think we gather a little too much under certain groupings.
Couldn’t agree more.
Our primary goal ought to be to glorify God and use the gifts Heâs given us in ways that are biblically appropriate. If thatâs in marriage, fantastic. If not, we can still be faithful to use our gifts in a godly manner.
Exactly. I find it kind of frustrating when every single character is shoehorned into a romance at the same time. It feels contrived when every person in a friend group falls in love within the space of a few months.
Romance is great, and sometimes the best thing for the story, but it’d be cool if some characters were still single by the end of the series. Either because they haven’t found the right person, or because they’re not ready to marry, or they have something they need to finish first.
I have at least two characters who decide to wait until they’re older to pursue romance. One because he has some things he has to work through first, the other because she has something she feels called to that she wants to accomplish.
I think itâs important to showcase a variety of strengths in female characters. Include the female characters who fight, but also include the ones who are healers, or mothers, or artists, or sisters, or who speak up about injustice or challenge others to grow or⊠any number of other things. Strength comes in many forms, whether youâre writing a male or a female character. Weâve adopted this societal notion that physical strength is the only one that counts, but integrity and compassion and wisdom and patience and many other things are equally as strong and importantâif not more so.
Exactly! I love to see a variety of characters and strengths, whether male or female.
Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?
Thank you for your input! I agree with everything you said. I’m also quite conservative, and I know there’s others out there but it’s hard to find those who aren’t scared to admit what they stand for.
I knew tagging you would be a good thing. I agree with you and you’ve pointed out a lot that I never really gave any thought to. Deborah is definitely a book I’ll have to keep in mind while writing my character, thank you.
that article was extremely helpful, thank you! I knew if anyone did, it would be you that liked the title the most XD
You raise some interesting points. I agree that it is possible for a woman to take on a man even with height and weight differences, however I believe it is less likely for a skinny 5’2 girl to win against a muscular 6’2 man. Though it is possible, it is less likely. Most authors (not all, but most) would probably let the girl win because she’s a woman rather than she is a woman with skill or the circumstances were exactly right, and that’s what I disagree with.
I’m pretty sure we all pretty much agree on everything, that being said, what more would you like to see in writing that shows this? A few examples have been given but not many
Be weird. Be random. Be who you are. Because you ever know who would love the person you hide.
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