@mlbolangerauthor
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I am WAAAY late to this conversation, and I both agree and disagree with the statement “you shouldn’t worry too much about how to write a story that glorifies God because if you’re a Christian you can’t help but express your love for the God you know.”
Here’s why:
I DISAGREE because you can’t ‘drift’ or ‘coast’ into a God glorifying anything. If you are drifting or coasting as a Christian, your life as well as your writing will contain sketchy or incorrect theology at best, and at worst will be directly opposed to the Gospel.
However, I also AGREE because a Christian author who is already living an intentionally God-glorifying life in every other area will find that their faith and beliefs filter into everything they do, including what they write.
I am probably splitting hairs and fussing with semantics, but my main disagreement here, I think, is with the implication that only truly committed Christians can write God honoring stories. There are musicians, artists, preachers, and teachers who write, sing, and teach things that are theologically and Biblically correct, but their lives are far from connected to Christ. People are drawn into true worship, learn Biblical truths, and genuinely commit their lives to Christ through the voice or pen of a person who is completely lost.
And – conversely – there are committed Christians who do and write things that are far from God honoring things. They turn people away from Christ with words and or actions that might or might not be intentional.
My point is – If you judge the work or the person simply based on whether or not the work is Biblically sound or clearly presents the gospel, you could come to the wrong conclusion.
In my humble opinion, God is much less concerned (but not at all unconcerned!) with the work being created than He is with the heart and motive of the one creating it. Now – Before you label me a complete heretic, let me remind you of what I said when I disagreed with the original post.
“I DISAGREE because you can’t ‘drift’ or ‘coast’ into a God glorifying anything.”
If you are already living a life that is intentional about glorifying God in not just your writing, but also in every other area of your life – your motive will be to bring glory to God in everything you do, which means your worldview, your beliefs, and Biblical truths will bleed into your writing, because that is the theme of your life – not just your writing. Making sure those truths are solid and accurate may take a bit more intentionality and research, but in general the premise and content will be in line with a life lived for Christ. The rewards for such motives are eternal!
Those who are not living a God fearing, God honoring life can still produce God honoring things, but they will receive no eternal reward for them. Their reward will be the money, fame, and applause they gain here, though in the end, they will be the ones to whom Jesus says, “I never knew you.”
I tried to read through most of the thread, and may have missed the entire point of the discussion…it does happen often enough. If so, please disregard my wandering off topic.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
I’ve been super busy and haven’t had time to respond or even read all the responses. **insert joy for having a wonderfully full life** I plan to get caught up this weekend.
However, I do have to take a moment to say I agree with @hope-ann. You put into words the convictions I have come to live by yet hadn’t been able to fully articulate. I also have never heard it worded as clearly as you did. THANK YOU!
I also salute you, sir, and put forth a motion to formally affirm your informal nickname as “Professor Karthim” henceforth. Is there a second?
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
Great…… Just great…. You’re a new face. Then again, a lot of folks ’round here are gonna be.
I am new. =) I’ll stumble around and trip over a few unspoken lines before I get this all figured out. I’m a bit of a rebel that way.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@thewirelessblade – @karthmin is correct. It is pretty standard now to include the “QA” which stand for Queer and Asexual. I associate with many in that community, and try my best to be respectful of the way they ask to be addressed, but it is not universal.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@pursuewisdom I have recently found K.M. Weiland’s resources to be extremely helpful. Most of them are free on her website. =) Check the links down the left side of the page for all the goodies.
https://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@dakota – Beautiful!
I am not a cold weather person, but your poem puts me in the mood for all the great things of fall.
=) I love your style.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@sarah-inkdragon – I apologize! I forgot to respond to your comments.
I’d personally have to agree with Daeus on this one. I’d love to see more books that handle issues like this, but then again some people can write things like this and some people can’t. It depends on a person’s God-given gifts and convictions. Also, as Daeus said, Christians don’t usually get involved with any of these subjects, and therefore know little about them or simply don’t want to know anything about them because they are hard topics to understand and think about from a Christian perspective. We try to shut out anything that does not agree with our worldview because it’s hard to deal with, and we don’t have the time or the money or the patience or the strength to take on such a topic in our eyes.
It is so true that we have to follow our God-given gifts and convictions before engaging deeply in these topics. We have to know not only what we believe, but WHY we believe it. It took me a lot of research and study to solidify what I believe, and my beliefs only got firmer the more I engaged with these topics.
It is difficult to open ourselves up to differing worldviews, because it means ours might be challenged in a way we aren’t prepared to give answer for. =) But, how else will we grow if we aren’t challenged?
I for one have a couple friends that consider themselves LGTBQA, and while our worldviews certainly don’t agree, I can say that they are not bad people. Let me correct that–what they’re doing is evil, yes, and they and their sin nature are evil, yes, but I don’t believe you can pin the “bad guy” sticker on someone just like that. Yes, they’re living in sin. But that doesn’t mean we should avoid them like the plague and never give them a chance to see what they’re doing is wrong because we don’t know how to handle it. Yes, different people have different convictions and different gifts for dealing with different things. But if we can get a second chance, so should they. And no one has ever been saved by us ignoring them or hating them.
I think this is kind of a hot button for me because I was personally attacked by the church for ‘living in sin.’ That’s sort of the definition of being lost. =) And the lost are the very people we, the church, are called to reach out to by doing what Jesus did – He did life with them, ate at their houses, and spent so much time with them He even got accused of being one of them…But – getting that involved leads back to being absolutely sure of what you believe, so that you can not be convinced otherwise. Not for the sake of convincing THEM, but so that you yourself don’t fall to the same temptations.
And I think THAT is the real reason it is easier to avoid engaging with those who live opposed to what we believe. We are afraid of being accused of being like them, or we are afraid they will influence us instead of the other way around. =)
Human rights are a little trickier–in some ways, some things benefit society and people but then hurt someone else. It’s like dumping waste into the ocean–you get it away from the city/land and therefore make the people’s homes better and cleaner and safer, but then you end up killing a major food source for the entire world and enraging all the animal activists. (I have nothing against animal activists–but you have to admit they get riled up pretty easily sometimes.) Things like free will–that’s a paradox right there. We supposedly, with free will and everything else the constitution entails, are given the freedom to do basically whatever is right in the eyes of the government, ourselves, and society. Sure, that’s great. But the problem is is that society and people’s own standards of what is right or “true” are changing all the time because they don’t know what is right and true, because they don’t have God. The latest truth-fad is “be true to yourself”. Which when you first look at it, is great. Don’t let people look down on you for who you are, nice. But look again–what it’s saying is that the inescapable and resolute truth that was set down by God is now able to be defined by us–humans. That we can define our own truth, and therefore can change the laws of what is right, good, acceptable, just, fair, and true on a whim. So yes, human rights are touchy subject.
You are so right. Human rights are far trickier than the other ‘sin’ issues addressed here, because the topic has been so politicized. It isn’t always about morality, and that is a hard pill for the church to swallow. It is about basic human dignity and every life being treated honorably, even if that life is ultimately lived in direct opposition to the Bible.
As for religions–I personally believe all religions other than the true and faithful belief in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit and what wisdom he has given us in the Bible to be wrong and to put it bluntly, Satanic. Yes, that might sound blunt, especially when you look at all the different “versions” of Christianity(Mormonism, Catholicism, JW, etc…) that hold similar views, but are still not in accordance to the Bible. But it’s the truth. So I believe that anything less than that true and faithful belief in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy spirit to not be right. And in fiction, it should not be portrayed as right. We are Christians–we’re not here to bend to someone’s wants or worldview, we’re here to blow them all away and show people what they are is doing is wrong. So yeah. I have a lot of opinions on this, but like I said before, the world was never changed by ignoring it’s problems and living a happy life. So yes, I think all of these things should be in fiction, to a certain degree and only written by people who know they can portray them correctly, accurately, and truthfully as the evil they are. There’s my two cents. I hope you enjoyed it. XD
Those are some strong thoughts! =) And I don’t disagree with the origins of the other religions. Satan seeks to counterfeit what God has done, and many of the world’s religions are the result of his deception. However, if we change our focus from the religion itself and narrow our attention to the individual who has been deceived – I think we can approach the topic of religion the same way we do any other sin. They need to know the love and truth of Christ so that they can know and understand the lie the enemy has sold them.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
I agree with a lot of @karthmin‘s thoughts on why Christian storytellers don’t often tackle these subjects. I think there are also specific challenges raised by some of these topics that also explains why Christian storytellers don’t often tackle them. On race, while you certainly will sometimes get some generic/light themes regarding this in fantasy/sci-fi works when dealing with fantasy/alien races, I wonder how much the absence of this theme in some Christian novels is due to blindness. America’s struggle with racism is unfortunately politicized in such a way where some see racism where they shouldn’t and others ignore racism when it’s clearly present. :/ In conservative evangelical circles (where I am most often), I see the latter temptation pop up more likely than the former, and I wonder if that affects fiction as well. If you’re less likely to see racism in today’s society where it exists, you’re less likely to try to tackle it in stories as well.
I’m starting to see a theme… Our reluctance to address these topics appears to stem from a reluctance to leave the perceived safety of our evangelical friends/community to actually engage with people we are supposed to be evangelizing. =)
With LGBTQ+ themes or themes dealing with other religions, I think there are certain hard limits that traditional Christians run into.
Can you define what you mean by ‘hard limits?’
In light of this, if a Christian wants to critique an outside movement, it’s hard to see where they have room to do so; building empathy in a story in a way that readers feel it despite the author’s status as an “enemy” of some sort seems like an insurmountable challenge to me. It’s hard to see where the audience for that is. For myself, if I know a novel is going to severely critique Christianity, I know that would dissuade me.
As a Christian, I believe we must all respect the Church as the Bride of Christ. Attacking her in a severe critique would be to attack the Bridegroom Himself. And that’s a bad idea no matter who you are. =)
But – What if the story isn’t a critique of either community, but rather a lowering of defenses on both sides to better understand each other? What if the story pointed out a more Biblical approach to evangelism by approaching it from the POV of a person in the community we wish to evangelize?
I do try to read these kinds of books to grow and challenge myself, but I don’t know how many readers think the same way as I do.
You might be surprised how many of us there actually are. =)
I’d tend to say that Christian authors are better off exploring themes regarding how Christians should interact with other religions or members of the LGBTQ+ movement, since there’s a better audience for those and a better mechanism for both establishing empathy and making meaningful points. We certainly need stories like that today.
Exactly! And these are the kinds of books I most want to write. =)
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
If it were told from the pov of an LGBTQ character, however, a number of Christian readers would probably not read it because that’s not the kind of story they are looking for, even if it could be very powerful that way. (yet if your message is for Christians, it isn’t going to do you much good if the general audience picks it up) If it were told from the pov of a Christain who is involved, and then maybe get pov scenes from others later, you’d be much more likely to draw people into the story. I’m not saying one is better than the other. Just that the reader perception and what they expect is going to be important, even if it’s not the one it should/you want it to be. Because the most powerful message in the world won’t do any good if no one reads the book. .
This is exactly what I’ve found to be true. A book written for the Christian church, from the POV of a non-Christian of ANY kind, is not well received. Which I don’t truly understand, and find this is part of the reason the Church and – to keep with our topic – the reason Christian fiction feels mostly irrelevant or out of touch with the rest of the world. (Present company excluded, of course.) We have taken that position that it is ‘wrong’ or ‘dangerous’ to make an attempt to see things from a point of view that is different than ours, even if that opposing view is presented as non-hostile in attitude.
Empathy and acceptance for the lost seems to have vanished. I clearly remember what it was like to be on the outside, and to be treated as such. Perhaps that has given me a unique desire to get to know people who believe differently than the Bible teaches.
Readers and writers alike seem to be rethinking the whole ‘Christian means clean’ deal but it’s not going to change overnight.
This one makes me giggle a little. The funny thing about it is, I am in a ‘Clean Reads’ author group that is comprised of a serious mix of believers and non-believers, and none of us can ever agree on what ‘clean’ actually means. Though you are right, anything with a Christian label on it with a single curse word will make the reader clutch their pearls in horror. =)
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@karthmin – I wanted to take some time to think through your response before writing my own. Obviously, based on my shorter response, I completely agree with you, but there is a LOT of meat here, and I wanted to take it a bite at a time.
The themes you mentioned definitely fall well within the scope of Christian fiction, and should be addressed more than they are currently. One reason they are not addressed very frequently, is because the majority of Christian fiction is marketed as “clean”, like Josiah DeGraaf mentioned in his first blog post in the series mentioned. This has to do, fundamentally, with content, like you said, rather than theme, but I think there is an unspoken expectation that Christian fiction should be suitable for a child to pick up and read without being negatively effected. I think that’s one of the problems in the world of Christian publishing today. There is an unspoken expectation of suitability for all ages. This has had two effects, in my opinion: 1. It has shunted popular Christian fiction towards the direction of children’s literature, and 2. It has stunted popular adult Christian fiction towards the barest and most banal of ‘deep’ themes. It is quite telling that “Amish novels” are one of the biggest selling niches within Christian fiction even today.
I honestly never thought about the expectation of Christian Fiction being suitable for children, but you are right. Even when I pitch my stories to potential readers, I find myself adding that they are “Young Adult suitable” just to drive home the point that they are clean enough to be considered Christian Fiction in spite of the themes.
A few myths need to be dispelled: 1. Christian literature does not mean family-friendly. Just because it is Christian fiction, does not mean that anyone and everyone can read it and be edified. There are stories that I wish to tell, stories that deserve to be told powerfully and unabashedly, which would be frankly unhelpful to someone at a young age, who is unsuited to handle the themes, and fully comprehend the message and its implications. Most Christian fiction will be family-friendly. But just because it isn’t, does not mean that it has lost any of it’s salt or light. Perhaps, it has gained more by refusing to dampen it’s themes or content. 2. Christian literature is not a genre. That is to say, Christian fiction should be just as varied and far-reaching in scope as non-Christian fiction, and it should be perceived in that way. Granted, this makes it far harder to market (from the publisher’s perspective), but there is no long-lasting benefit to anyone by artificially defining Christian fiction as it’s own “genre”. It can be fantasy, romance, sci-fi, dystopian, children’s, high-school drama, or whatever. There are few genres that Christian writers cannot legitimately tackle and be considered a full-ranking member of. But the label “Christian” seems to put us in a box with children’s stories and Amish novels.
I very nearly shouted when I read this point. =) I have fought this label from the moment I started writing. I have yet to find a marketable way to avoid it. This is easier for my fantasy novels since they make no mention of God, but my other two are overtly Christian story lines. Promoting them without including the fact that they are heavily faith based feels a bit like a ‘bait and switch’ maneuver. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.
It’s a high goal, but if I’m going to be found in bookstores at any point in my life, I don’t want to be found in the “Christian Fiction” section. Don’t get me wrong, my stories will always be unabashedly and thoroughly Christian in approach, perspective, and message. But if they can’t stand on their own two feet as legitimate works of literature, then they don’t deserve to be in the bookstore in the first place. Not that everything the Christian Fiction section isn’t worth reading. Again, don’t get me wrong on that, either. But I don’t want to be marketed in that way, because that’s not the audience I want to impact primarily.
I think THIS is where I am truly torn when it comes to making the decision to market and brand my books Christian or not. My idea reader IS Christian. The stories are targeted to Christians, and are meant to raise awareness of how poorly the Church in general has been handling these topics.
But – I am finding most Christians don’t want to know; and if they are curious, they certainly don’t want to engage with these topics. More than a few of the responses to this thread have fallen into this category. They are right when they claim it takes research and requires us to engage with those who are directly affected by these topics. That takes time, effort, and a willingness to engage with broken and hurting people to the degree that you feel what they feel. To do that, we must be unshakable in what we believe to be true, which allows us to accept people who believe differently than we do and give them the freedom to be who they are without trying to change them. Loving someone who lives in a way that is opposed to our beliefs challenges and sometimes shifts the way we apply our beliefs to our everyday life. That can be difficult to internalize, but it is necessary if we hope to truly reach and influence society in these areas.
Okay, so somewhere along the line, I got away from tackling difficult themes and started talking about publishing and marketing and bookstores. *clears throat* Excuse me. So, when it comes to the difficult topics that you mentioned, there are two ways to tackle them: One the one hand, you can trace the root of the problems back to their source, and address that source problem in the themes of your stories. For example: if I were to tackle an LGBTQetc issue, I would trace the ultimate theme in play back to the question of identity. What does it mean to be me? Human? Broken? Who am I? Who am I when I am different from everyone else? Who am I when I am trying to ignore or suppress a part of me that is real, and yet broken? So. My basic theme changes from a specifically LGBTQetc issue to one that is universally applicable to all humans everywhere. Granted, if I am intending to address that audience in particular, I will craft my story in such a way that gets at the root of their particular struggles more specifically; but still, the underlying theme is a more universal one that each person can benefit from. This seems to be a far more common way to address these kinds of topics in Christian fiction. Second, you can make your character a POV character who embodies these difficult issues and tackle them head-on. This is by far more difficult, easier to muff, and yet perhaps more beautiful and impactful when done well. I really don’t know which is better, to be honest.
I think what makes this second approach so difficult and ‘easier to muff’ is because of our lack of willingness to engage as noted above. All it took was one moment of overhearing a mom lament about her lesbian daughter’s struggle, and she changed my entire approach to those who believe differently from me. It forced me to have empathy for an entire demographic of people I once wrote off as making a ‘lifestyle’ choice. Whether or not they did, doesn’t negate their very real emotions, struggles, and needs. Being able to write a story from the POV of a person in any demographic outside out own (whatever it might be – sex worker, LGBTQ+, trafficking victim) and doing it in such a way that causes someone to see and understand them differently – THAT is my goal as a writer.
I want to tell great stories, yes – of course, but my ultimate goal is to impact hearts and minds for Christ. Especially those who already know Him so that THEY can then be better equipped to impact the lost and hurting they come in contact with every day.
Done well, and approached with sensitivity – either option you mentioned is equally powerful.
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@karthmin – I am pretty much speechless. In the best possible way. =)
That. All of it.
Thank you for wording it so perfectly. I wouldn’t attempt to add a thing.
I was starting to think I was the only one, and that is what I was praying I would find here at SE.
Thank you, sir. I give you the highest of salutes. (And, I humbly request to be placed in your Guild. =))
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
Thank you, everyone. Your answers are in line with what I’ve gotten in other forums. I’m not sure how I feel about it. I have a slightly different angle on these topics. Not in a way that contradicts what the Bible says, but much differently than most of the Christian church does.
I appreciate everyone’s input!
@sarah-inkdragon @pursuewisdom @i-david @hope-ann @r-m-archer @daeus-lamb @josiah @daeus-lamb @hope-ann @karthmin @kateClumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
It would just require a tremendous amount of research for me to write in these areas.
Now, that being said, I do have tentative plans to write a novel with a theme of world religions even though my interaction with people of other religions isn’t very extensive. I’m planning that for nine-ish years down the road though, so I’m giving myself time to get ready. Another sensitive topic I’ve always wanted to see novels about is prison life.
It would/does require a lot of research to write about these things. Mostly to avoid perpetuating stereotypes or misinformation. =) Nine years should give you plenty of time. =)
Clumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
@hope-ann – Help me understand what you mean by ‘straw man.’ I have never heard that term before.
I’d personally have to agree with Daeus on this one. I’d love to see more books that handle issues like this, but then again some people can write things like this and some people can’t. It depends on a person’s God-given gifts and convictions. Also, as Daeus said, Christians don’t usually get involved with any of these subjects, and therefore know little about them or simply don’t want to know anything about them because they are hard topics to understand and think about from a Christian perspective. We try to shut out anything that does not agree with our worldview because it’s hard to deal with, and we don’t have the time or the money or the patience or the strength to take on such a topic in our eyes. …. There’s my two cents. I hope you enjoyed it. XD
I think you and @daeus-lamb nailed the reason on the head. In general, Christians as a whole don’t want to or don’t know how to engage with these topics. And those of us who do engage must be careful not to allow the world’s view of these things to influence or negate what the Bible says. It’s easier to throw the topics under the general label of evil and not search out why God calls them such. He always has a reason for WHY He classifies certain things as evil, and I would like to see more authors, fiction writers, address these topics.
Do any of you feel like the market (Christian and non-Christian) is looking for stories like these? Are they looking for the kind of stories that try to give a Biblical answer to today’s cultural hot buttons?
@morreafirebird @r-m-archerClumsy but cute. Apologizes a lot. Doesn't shed. Much.
