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Poets

This is totally about poetry

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  • #146068
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    I suppose I should do something like that as well.

    You can try it out! It won’t do any harm, at least, and it may work for you.

    Behold the Dawn by K. M. Weiland is still my favorite stand alone novel hands down, and having studied characters and structure myself now, I love it all the more.

    Still need to check that one out, it’s high on my TBR!

    Gale is a perfect example of a side character who is not developed much and is rather boring (I really wouldn’t care much at all if he just keeled over dead).

    Honestly, you’re completely correct, but Hunger Games is a very interesting example because a. it’s told from one very deep and detailed POV, and b. it’s in present tense with a great sense of immediacy.
    Because Gale is never much of a priority to Katniss, he is automatically a more shallow side character. Admittedly, the author sacrificed the depth of the side characters for the depth of the POV, which… worked in that specific scenario but isn’t a great payoff in most other works.

    And two, book three (which I have not finished yet, so I suppose this could be a hasty judgement), is a good example of how great internal conflict and character arc can not make a story good by itself.

    That’s… an interesting point and I do see where you’re coming from. It’s very differently structured from the earlier books, and it isn’t my favorite of the series, but I think it was a good conclusion to the series.

    I read a lot of mystery books that aren’t really structured around a three act story structure much, and they’re still great (Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, Willike Collins, Will Thomas).

    I have noticed that as well. Older books don’t maintain strong structure but still keep good pacing, which is pretty interesting. Well, some of them. Many older books just drag for a hundred pages somewhere in the middle XD

    I read a lot of mysteries as well, and have recently listened to several Agatha Christie books. I’ve read “And then there were none”, “Murder on the Orient Express”, “The Murder on the Links”,  and am currently in the middle of “The Mysterious Affair at Styles” Which Agatha Christie novels have you read and which are your favorite?

    How about you?

    I have an instant answer for a series that has gotten worse the more I learned about how stories work XD Ranger’s apprentice.

    I love those books dearly, but mostly for sentimental value. The premise is… fine, but not original. I listened to the first twelve books in the Dutch translation which was way better than the English. It’s the only book I have ever read where I prefer a translation. The English is clunky and filled with regional words and voice. (very poor prose overall) (It was a brilliant translation though, with only a few blips with translating puns)

    Especially in the latter books the author is not only stretching plots out far longer than needed, but he doesn’t have an end goal in mind anymore. The plots have no structure and are predictable at best. The characters are vastly overpowered to the point where they haven’t faced an equal in… six books. At least.

    Also, he has a very bad habit of infodumping for chapters at a time which is really frustrating.

    The characters have great relationships and pretty good interactions but it doesn’t really develop beyond the first ten books.

    Also, Brotherband is… possibly worse XD The initial concept is cool but again the issue with dragging out a concept. And it gets extremely repetitive. Also, love triangle for no reason with no payoff. It was mentioned in the second book and then it just vanished for six books. And in Brotherband his main cast has exactly one girl who is “not like other girls” and is basically only there to be tough, sarcastic and a love interest. (She annoys me.)

    The lack of continuity is so dramatic that it’s a standing joke in the fandom how the characters change eye color and hair color and how there isn’t anything that resembles a timeline.

    These books are still very dear to me and if I wasn’t a writer I probably wouldn’t have realized it. I’m being overly critical, but it’s something that I’ve noticed as I started analyzing books more. Ngl, it kind of makes them harder to enjoy XD

    On the other end of the spectrum, books I never appreciated for their full value.
    There’s this one series that I faintly remember, that I read back when I was a horse-crazy tween, which, thinking back on it, was actually pretty brilliantly written. I don’t remember any details but I remember good development, solid plot, a really good MC, and Christian messages that felt like a part of the plot instead of a preachy message. Also, I remember it dealing with pretty heavy subject matter several times.

    (I have no idea if this is a Dutch thing but all the MG books I borrowed from the library were about every deep societal issue you could imagine covered in gritty detail. And YA was… vampire romance. That’s… it. XD)

    That author mainly writes middle-grade, I do need to reread for sentimental value sometime.

    And another series I still reread now and then. It’s a duology called Letter for the King by Tonke Dragt. (I may have mentioned it before but I will rant about it again because those books are so good. Brace yourself 😉 )

    It was published way back in the sixties, and it’s a pretty typical quest fantasy. The worldbuilding is interesting, with a flair of originality without feeling like it’s trying too hard. It’s pretty strongly based in Medieval times and it’s more accurate than many books I’ve read.

    It has deeper themes and messages than you usually encounter in works of the kind, and they’re well executed.

    The second book is by far my favorite. It has an amazing dynamic between good and evil, and a facinating villain and a lot of gray middle ground with conflicted characters. And did I mention the setting is captivating? I can absolutely see it.

    Unlike a lot of fantasy, it doesn’t try to be dark and gritty. The world is gorgeous and I’d love to live there. There’s a river called the Rainbow river because of how it looks in the sunshine and it’s crossed by a bridge with seven arches, and on the other side there’s a forest filled with flowers. The descriptions in general are just beautiful.

    It’s just pure escapism and I live for it. Ngl, I would read those books just for the settings.

    Besides that, it has a very interesting and well developed good vs. evil battle. As in, good can do wrong and evil can be very appealing and sympathetic.

    The rulers are largely kind and work to serve the people with justice, and the common people are largely much kinder than I generally see in fantasy. Random villagers offer the MC rides to get places, or take him in for the night just because they want to help a stranger.

    It demonstrates a very interesting theme that I don’t see a lot, it sets a world up as largely good with most people being well-intentioned, which makes it that much more important that it should be protected from the threat.

    Also, great prose, especially in the second book. There’s one character who speaks almost only in alliteration and hyperbole for comedic effect and it’s glorious. Unfortunately, the translator gave up on it so that aspect didn’t translate well 🙁 However, the rest of the translation is really good! I’ve read both versions and I like both.

    I get unreasonably excited over those books, I just still love them so much. As I learned more as a writer I recognized just how brilliant the settings and themes were in general.

    (You may have heard of/seen a Netflix series by the same title but I refuse to acknowledge it’s existence. I will not rant about it but I could.)

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146075
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    Because Gale is never much of a priority to Katniss

    That is what really didn’t make much sense to me, considering he is her closest friend and everything, and all her focus is on Peeta. The first two books are great overall though.

    Many older books just drag for a hundred pages somewhere in the middle

    Read any Dickens? I convinced a couple of my friends to read Bleak House to test the waters, and they both immediately started complaining about it to me. xD It just goes to show that the strict three act story structure of many movies and YA books is not always required (though the main idea of it is still used of course).

    Which Agatha Christie novels have you read and which are your favorite?

    All of the ones you mentioned are fantastic. I’ve read nearly the entire Hercule Poirot series, and Murder on the Orient Express, Murder of  Sir Roger Ackroyd, and Death on the Nile are probably my three favorites (but there are so many good ones).

    And then there were none  is probably my third favorite stand alone book ever, though the ending was quite dark and disappointing (but very very memorable). However, the scene where the record player starts playing and a voice starts listing all of the crimes of each person in the room is still one of my favorite scenes in any book ever. It’s beyond good. As you can see, I’m a major Christie fan. xD

    I have an instant answer for a series that has gotten worse the more I learned about how stories work XD Ranger’s apprentice.

    I agree with everything you said. I read the series quite a while before I began writing, and I already thought the plot was quite trite and uninspiring. The main characters were solid, but the plot and events were just not great. Too the point that the last three or four books in the series I started skimming, and then I got to Emperor of Nihon-Ja and quit a quarter of the way through. xD It was bad. Some of my cousins love it, and they cajoled me into reading Brotherband. I quite a third of the way through the first book for pretty much everything you said. The characters and plot were top notch boring. Now hopefully several of the people on SE don’t see this post. xD

    There’s this one series that I faintly remember, that I read back when I was a horse-crazy tween, which, thinking back on it, was actually pretty brilliantly written.

    Was it called the Baker Family Series? I used to read that one way back in the day, it fits that description almost exactly (though I wouldn’t say it was terribly brilliant xD).

    And another series I still reread now and then. It’s a duology called Letter for the King by Tonke Dragt.

    That sounds very interesting. I looked it up, and it is now on my list. Is it your favorite fantasy series?

    #146099
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    That is what really didn’t make much sense to me, considering he is her closest friend and everything, and all her focus is on Peeta. The first two books are great overall though.

    Huh, that’s actually a really good point. I think making Gale a more interesting character by himself would fix a lot of that, he was just boring on all accounts. That’s an interesting point, he should have been somewhat more important to her.

    Read any Dickens? I convinced a couple of my friends to read Bleak House to test the waters, and they both immediately started complaining about it to me. xD It just goes to show that the strict three act story structure of many movies and YA books is not always required (though the main idea of it is still used of course).

    Oh, goodness, yes. He always ends up doing that XD I hold to the claim that Dickens is better as an audiobook so you can do something else while he rambles XD

    ’ve read nearly the entire Hercule Poirot series, and Murder on the Orient Express, Murder of  Sir Roger Ackroyd, and Death on the Nile are probably my three favorites (but there are so many good ones).

    Oh, I read Murder of Sir Roger Ackroyd as well! I forgot to mention it. That twist was fantastic. It had me audibly going “what?” multiple times after the reveal.

    And then there were none  is probably my third favorite stand alone book ever, though the ending was quite dark and disappointing (but very very memorable). However, the scene where the record player starts playing and a voice starts listing all of the crimes of each person in the room is still one of my favorite scenes in any book ever. It’s beyond good. As you can see, I’m a major Christie fan. xD

    Absolutely, it was an amazing scene and the entire story had such a cool structure because you knew what was coming and there was no way to prevent it, so you just slowly watch the rhyme finish. Stories structured around a rhyme or song are my one weakness, I just love how it works.

    I agree with everything you said. I read the series quite a while before I began writing, and I already thought the plot was quite trite and uninspiring. The main characters were solid, but the plot and events were just not great. Too the point that the last three or four books in the series I started skimming, and then I got to Emperor of Nihon-Ja and quit a quarter of the way through. xD It was bad.

    It is, I feel like one of the issues is that the author doesn’t try anything new, ever, he just keeps repeating the same structure over and over. Which also means he doesn’t really improve.

    He once said he doesn’t read in his genre at all so he doesn’t copy and I instantly went “Oh, yeah, figures. No wonder they’re all the same.”

    Emperor of Nihon-Ja was my least favorite of all the books, without a single doubt. I often just skip it XD

    Some of my cousins love it, and they cajoled me into reading Brotherband. I quite a third of the way through the first book for pretty much everything you said. The characters and plot were top notch boring. Now hopefully several of the people on SE don’t see this post. xD

    Yeah, it’s a slow start and the characters never live up to their full potential. It actually… gets worse XD It’s missing the great cast that made Ranger’s Apprentice halfway decent, and it isn’t nearly as funny. It feels like it’s trying too hard.

    Was it called the Baker Family Series? I used to read that one way back in the day, it fits that description almost exactly (though I wouldn’t say it was terribly brilliant xD).

    No, I’ve never heard of it! It was the Winnie the Horse Gentler series by Dandi Daley Mackall. I’m rather out of the target audience now, it’s squarely MG, but it was well written compared to most other ‘horse stories’ I read. As evidenced by the fact that I remember almost everything about it XD

    That sounds very interesting. I looked it up, and it is now on my list. Is it your favorite fantasy series?

    I actually don’t know what my favorite is XD I have many favorites XD It’s definitely in the top three! Whenever I read it I get that instant feeling like “That’s it, that’s what I want to write.”

    Also! While looking it up yesterday I saw that they finally translated “The Song of Seven” also by Tonke Dragt. It’s different, I’d classify it as urban fantasy, though there isn’t that much fantasy about it.

    The basic premise is that an elementary school teacher recieves an answer to a letter he never sent, asking him to come for an interview to tutor a student at the castle-like House of Stairs. And then he finds out about a treasure, a prophecy, and a conspiracy. Hijinks ensue and it’s amazing.

    It’s a fairly modern, realistic setting, but like, slightly to the left. Some things about it are just the slightest bit off in an interesting way. The side characters seem to know things that they don’t tell the main character. Some slightly odd things happen without explanation, and things that are objectively kind of weird are just accepted.

    Except by the main character, who just arrived in the town and thinks they’re all being very silly and immature.

    The main character isn’t that amazing, but he suits the story perfectly, since the whole story is just a little not quite natural and he just… ignores it and rationally explains all of it.

    Someone tells him he’s the chosen one and he just ignores it and spends half the book trying to find his textbooks. He’s the prime example of a chosen one who wants nothing to do with it, and it’s hilarious.

    However, despite that, he has a lot of agency, in all the wrong directions. It’s kind of hilarious because he’s constantly being pushed in plot directions and going the exact opposite direction and accidentally helping the plot along.

    The book has fantastic side characters, they’re vivid and just a little weird and absolutely amazing. I’d read a book about them alone.

    The only thing that’s slightly iffy about the book is that there’s a character who staunchly claims that he’s a magician. He never does any kind of magic and it isn’t even implied that magic exists. Every single weird thing he does turns out to be some kind of sleight of hand.

    And this is another example of a story that’s structured around a rhyme or a song. This one is a Dutch childrens’ song, the titular Song of Seven. (Zevensprong in Dutch, which literally means a crossroad of seven ways, which also appears in the story)

    I remember that there are several instances of childrens’ rhymes used in the story, but I think the translation is fairly good, it’s the same translator as the Letter for the King and she did a great job with the songs last time.

    I love that book and I’ve been waiting forever for the translation so I can convince other people to read it.

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146114
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    I hold to the claim that Dickens is better as an audiobook so you can do something else while he rambles

    I concur. xD

    Also! While looking it up yesterday I saw that they finally translated “The Song of Seven” also by Tonke Dragt.

    *Adds another book to my read list

    That sounds great!

    The book has fantastic side characters, they’re vivid and just a little weird and absolutely amazing. I’d read a book about them alone.

    *Moves it higher on my reading list

    I’m pumped. 🙂

    Btw, I just wanted to thank you again for all the time you put into beta reading for me. I’m sure it took you a good amount of time, and I really appreciate it. Your tips and advice are truly invaluable.

    #146116
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    *Adds another book to my read list

    That sounds great!

    *Moves it higher on my reading list

    I’m pumped.

    Tell me when you’ve read it! I can rant about those books for ages (as you’ve seen XD) My favorite characters are Rosemary and Geert-Jan. (You’re going to have a fun time with the Dutch names, as far as I could see from the preview they left most of them original XD)

    Btw, I just wanted to thank you again for all the time you put into beta reading for me. I’m sure it took you a good amount of time, and I really appreciate it. Your tips and advice are truly invaluable.

    It was my pleasure! I really enjoyed reading it and giving the feedback! You made this project great to work on, it was very well organized and I really appreciate how you listen feedback but still question it when needed. I really enjoyed discussing it!

    Tell me when you need beta-readers for the series, I’m totally up for that! When are you planning to start drafting?

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146119
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    Tell me when you’ve read it! I can rant about those books for ages (as you’ve seen XD) My favorite characters are Rosemary and Geert-Jan.

    Will do.

    (You’re going to have a fun time with the Dutch names, as far as I could see from the preview they left most of them original

    Alright then, after I read it, I’ll come back and see how badly I mispronounced them. 🙃

    I really enjoyed discussing it!

    Same here. 🙂

    Tell me when you need beta-readers for the series, I’m totally up for that!

    I’ll probably be taking you up on that. 🙂 I’m looking forward to reading yours this April.

    When are you planning to start drafting?

    I started Monday this week. Got around 3500 words in this morning. It’s going pretty good so far, but my writing speed per hour really needs work.

    #146121
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    Alright then, after I read it, I’ll come back and see how badly I mispronounced them.

    LOL, in the preview I saw that the translator did switch out a couple that would be too weird to prounounce.

    I find it very funny because Letter for the King and some of her fantasy books have these really outlandish names like “Jiacomo” and “Iridian” and “Tiuri” and then this book has the most generic old-fashioned Dutch names XD

    I’ll probably be taking you up on that.   I’m looking forward to reading yours this April.

    I’m looking forward to it too, it’s scary but very exciting that I get to share it. I look forward to beta-reading your next book!

    I started Monday this week. Got around 3500 words in this morning. It’s going pretty good so far, but my writing speed per hour really needs work.

    That’s really impressive, that’s like the maximum word count I’ve ever gotten in a day!

    I plan to start drafting book 3 next week monday so we’re close together! I’m really excited to start, I think I’ll really enjoy writing this book.

    What word count are you aiming for this book?

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146124
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    and then this book has the most generic old-fashioned Dutch names

    Well I’m fairly confident they won’t be generic to me. xD

    I plan to start drafting book 3 next week monday so we’re close together!

    Yep. 🙂

    I’m really excited to start, I think I’ll really enjoy writing this book.

    Same here, I love all my characters before I’ve even written them. xD

    What word count are you aiming for this book?

    Book one will probably be around 180k-200k. What about you?

    #146125
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    Well I’m fairly confident they won’t be generic to me. xD

    Which is exactly what makes it so funny XD For me it’s like “I know four people with this name” and to you it’s more like “How are you supposed to pronounce this eldritch nonsense?” XD I’m really glad the translator made that choice.

    Man, I wish they’d kept “Joke” as a name. It’s not pronounced like that, but that’s how it’s spelled and it’s a common girl’s name XD

    Same here, I love all my characters before I’ve even written them. xD

    Absolutely! I have the added benefit that I already know most of my characters, though I do have the addition of a shiny new POV that I haven’t written before! And he’s one of my favorite characters! That will be so much fun.

    Which part of your book are you looking forward to writing most? Do you have a specific character, setting, or plot point you really want to write?

    Book one will probably be around 180k-200k. What about you?

    That’s a bit longer than TTD, wasn’t it? I think TTD was around 150k.

    I’m planning for *just* 100k words, but I’ll probably go over again.

    Oh, there’s something I forgot to mention in my beta critique but that I did want to come back to.

    Your formatting isn’t standard, which isn’t a huge issue but it is something to note if you plan to publish. Standard formatting is 12-point Times New Roman, double-spaced. I’m not sure about the margins, but you can find it online.

    Also, you don’t punctuate dialogue properly and you don’t split paragraphs up enough. It’s just a couple basic rules to look up, after about ten thousand words it becomes second nature, but it will make it a whole lot easier to read.

    For paragraphs, you have to split off whenever you introduce a new Time, Person Topic, or Place. Basically, whenever the camera shifts. And in introspection whenever it switches topics.

    And you always split off whenever a person speaks. Dialogue always stands alone, not in the middle of introspection.

    Just something to look at, I had a lot of trouble figuring it out throughout my first manuscript, I tended to make every line its own paragraph XD

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146130
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    For me it’s like “I know four people with this name” and to you it’s more like “How are you supposed to pronounce this eldritch nonsense? Man, I wish they’d kept “Joke” as a name. It’s not pronounced like that, but that’s how it’s spelled and it’s a common girl’s name

    😂 Yeah, differences in cultures and languages are always hilarious like that.

    Which part of your book are you looking forward to writing most? Do you have a specific character, setting, or plot point you really want to write?

    Oh there are so many. A few for book one are a several of the big confrontation scenes,  writing the MC’s arc, developing a friendship, writing a house fight, and writing the climax.

    That’s a bit longer than TTD, wasn’t it? I think TTD was around 150k.

    TTD was approixmately 170k, and this one will be around that, so yes, a tad longer probably.

    I’m planning for *just* 100k words, but I’ll probably go over again

    That’s a good length. Most popular YAish stuff is around that 100k-150k mark.

    Your formatting isn’t standard, which isn’t a huge issue but it is something to note if you plan to publish. Standard formatting is 12-point Times New Roman, double-spaced. I’m not sure about the margins, but you can find it online.

    Yep, I believe I corrected it in my current WIP.

    Also, you don’t punctuate dialogue properly and you don’t split paragraphs up enough. It’s just a couple basic rules to look up, after about ten thousand words it becomes second nature, but it will make it a whole lot easier to read.

    I discovered a couple things that I was doing wrong and am now doing them right in my current WIP, but in case I’m missing one, what main things specifically for dialogue?

    For paragraphs, you have to split off whenever you introduce a new Time, Person Topic, or Place. Basically, whenever the camera shifts. And in introspection whenever it switches topics.

    Yeah, I knew my paragraphs were too big, I’ll keep that in mind.

    Aren’t I allowed to break up a paragraph even if the topic didn’t change? If it was getting too long for instance?

    And you always split off whenever a person speaks. Dialogue always stands alone, not in the middle of introspection.

    Hmm…I know it should’t be in the middle  of inspection (though I’m sure I did it several times in TTD), but can’t it be at the beginning or end of introspection?

    Example from a published book:

    “The Baptist trusts  him…” She shook here head and looked down to the shawl dragging in the sand at her feet. If the Baptist trusted Annan, then perhaps she had misjudged him. Never had she known the Baptist’s judgement to be wrong, and Lord William had lived by his faith in the man ’til the day he died.

    That was all one paragraph like I wrote it there. Dialogue at the beginning, introspection in the same paragraph. I do that often, both in that way, and in reverse order. Thoughts?

    #146137
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    To make my question on the dialogue punctuation clearer, please tell me if the following things are true:

    This is correct: “I hate cars,” Roger said. “They are weird.”
    This is incorrect: “I hate cars,” Roger said, “They are weird.”
    This is incorrect: “I hate cars.” Roger said. “They are weird.”
    This is incorrect: “I hate cars,” Roger said, “they are weird.” (I did this one a lot in TTD, and if I’m not mistake, the only change should be that the commas after “said” should be a period, and the in t in “they” should be capitalized)
    This is correct: “I hate cars,” Roger said. “–they are weird.”
    This is correct: Roger said, “I hate cars.”
    This is correct: “I hate cars,” Roger said.

    I know I messed up on a lot of those things in TTD, but I fairly confident those things are right (except for the 5th one that is, I’m not so sure about that one).

    #146140
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

     Yeah, differences in cultures and languages are always hilarious like that.

    And it’s very funny how you can get used to it so completely XD

    Oh there are so many. A few for book one are a several of the big confrontation scenes,  writing the MC’s arc, developing a friendship, writing a house fight, and writing the climax.

    Sounds like a really fun project! It’s always the best when you can’t decide what will be the most fun.

    TTD was approixmately 170k, and this one will be around that, so yes, a tad longer probably.

    It was that long? My second book is 130k and 460 pages long, yours is 40k longer but thirty pages shorter. I guess that’s the formatting difference!

    How many books are you planning for that series?

    That’s a good length. Most popular YAish stuff is around that 100k-150k mark.

    I don’t have the attention span for anything longer XD

    Oddly enough, with my second book, I discovered that I had a weak spot in the same place as TTD, the area just before the midpoint. I guess that’s a hard part to write or maybe that’s the point I get impatient with books, it could be either.

    Yeah, I knew my paragraphs were too big, I’ll keep that in mind.

    Aren’t I allowed to break up a paragraph even if the topic didn’t change? If it was getting too long for instance?

    Yep! I do that quite a lot. That was just a rule of thumb.

    That was all one paragraph like I wrote it there. Dialogue at the beginning, introspection in the same paragraph. I do that often, both in that way, and in reverse order. Thoughts?

    I remember you did the reverse order several times and it threw me off every time. I don’t think that’s the best way, it gets lost in the introspection.

    As for the former, it may be a stylistic choice, but I’d break it off at “If the Baptist trusted Annan, then perhaps she had misjudged him.” and make the rest a seperate paragraph. I generally prefer shorter paragraphs, as I mentioned before. I’m not sure whether leaving it together is the correct way. It may be.

    To make my question on the dialogue punctuation clearer, please tell me if the following things are true:

    Okay, you’re pretty close, I think the only issues are here:

    This is incorrect: “I hate cars,” Roger said, “they are weird.” (I did this one a lot in TTD, and if I’m not mistake, the only change should be that the commas after “said” should be a period, and the in t in “they” should be capitalized)

    I’m pretty sure that’s correct, though that would change if you had an action instead of a dialogue tag.

    “I hate cars,” Roger said. “–they are weird.”

    You wouldn’t put an em-dash there.

    “You only use an em-dash when–” she paused to push the cat off the table, “–you’re interrupting a sentence with an action.”

    “Though that also counts–” she started

    “When someone else interrupts,” he finished.

    Again, I’m not absolutely positive on these, and I only noticed it in the first part, after that it may have happened but the only thing I really registered was when you didn’t put dialogue seperate from introspection.

    You don’t really need to over-analyze that as you’re drafting, but it is something to keep in mind later.

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146141
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    It was that long? My second book is 130k and 460 pages long, yours is 40k longer but thirty pages shorter. I guess that’s the formatting difference!

    I had no idea about the 12pt, double space formatting thing. But I looked it up and one is supposed to have 12pt size, indented paragraphs, Times New Roman, Double Space, and no  extra space between paragraphs (just one enter after each). I had none of that before, so the amount of pages in TTD is small.

    How many books are you planning for that series?

    Probably 5.

    I don’t have the attention span for anything longer XD

    Yeah, I actually really enjoy long books. Epicness and all of that. xD

    Oddly enough, with my second book, I discovered that I had a weak spot in the same place as TTD, the area just before the midpoint. I guess that’s a hard part to write or maybe that’s the point I get impatient with books, it could be either.

    I seriously doubt it was from too many crazy fight sequences though. xD

    As for the former, it may be a stylistic choice, but I’d break it off at “If the Baptist trusted Annan, then perhaps she had misjudged him.” and make the rest a seperate paragraph.

    Okay, so no reverse order at least. The reason I liked to use either one of those was because introspection can take the place of a dialogue tag, which is always a beneficial thing to do. But I see your point.

    I’m pretty sure that’s correct, though that would change if you had an action instead of a dialogue tag.

    So you’re saying I was wrong about being wrong? If so, that’s great, because I used that one all the time.

    You wouldn’t put an em-dash there “You only use an em-dash when–” she paused to push the cat off the table, “–you’re interrupting a sentence with an action.”

    Alright, thanks for the info!

    #146142
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    I had no idea about the 12pt, double space formatting thing. But I looked it up and one is supposed to have 12pt size, indented paragraphs, Times New Roman, Double Space, and no  extra space between paragraphs (just one enter after each). I had none of that before, so the amount of pages in TTD is small.

    If you’re still considering Scrivener, it has this lovely feature where you can write in whatever font and size you like and it will format it for you, make a title page, and number and label all your pages and you can export it in all kinds of formats.

    It’s brilliant, I usually write in Comic Sans (Yes, I know. It really writes faster though) and then convert it to TNR later.

    Probably 5.

    That’s a nice length for a series! Four always feels like a trilogy with a book tacked on and any more than five usually gets stretched out with lots of filler or the arc gets lost.

    Yeah, I actually really enjoy long books. Epicness and all of that. xD

    I really like reading long books,  I just prefer writing shorter ones because otherwise I get discouraged.

    I seriously doubt it was from too many crazy fight sequences though. xD

    … no comment XD

    So you’re saying I was wrong about being wrong? If so, that’s great, because I used that one all the time.

    Exactly, your first idea was right. Don’t you just love it when that happens? XD

    Alright, thanks for the info!

    No cats were harmed in that example. 😉

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #146143
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    If you’re still considering Scrivener, it has this lovely feature where you can write in whatever font and size you like and it will format it for you, make a title page, and number and label all your pages and you can export it in all kinds of formats.

    Yeah, I do need to get Scrivener sometime.

    I really like reading long books,  I just prefer writing shorter ones because otherwise I get discouraged.

    Oh, then I definitely agree. My mind just works in long, epic proportions I guess, so I write long stuff despite the  ‘I wanna stop and burn this’  issue.

    Exactly, your first idea was right.

    I think that might be a first.

    No cats were harmed in that example.

    Uh huh, right. You push cats off furniture in your free time don’t you. 😜

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