@wordsmithActive 1 week, 6 days ago
Forum Replies Created
June 22, 2021 at 12:59 pm #134940
Indeed. I don’t show my face often… but, on occasion it seems fit.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!June 16, 2021 at 11:17 am #134780
Good morning, oh friend. I know thee well.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!September 14, 2020 at 1:44 pm #119506
Thank you! Those are super helpful comments. And I’ve gotten quite a few other responses that agree with you (it’s kinda nice when beta-reviews are consistent).
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!September 12, 2020 at 4:42 pm #119444
Thanks. Here you have it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lWEhQkMfkQWGDvpYh3SndE6M_LdfocPKu1mLZMxXF3I/edit
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 8, 2020 at 4:14 pm #103587
*sniffs* Ouch. 😅😂
I think it does well. And yes, it stings a little.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 11:54 pm #103554
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 10:27 pm #103550
*laughs* I am working so hard to keep things clear… *sighs* Let’s see if I can do this. *compiles terms he’ll need to use*
Okay! I think in general we agree, but maybe we’re looking for a different angle on it with a slightly different answer. And I’ll clarify that when I refer to the tools of language, the objective side of voice, and similar phrases I am referring to the literary devices.
And when I say, “…while still taking into account that it’s going to be applied by another individual with their own mind.” I’m referring to the subjective application of the soul, of the person, as they use the objective literary devices (which is a massive pool of information).
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 9:14 pm #103539
And I think that when talking about voice, even if the definition is “our depth of heart coming through the language” in a particular way, we still need to talk about why the language makes voice itself. If the mechanics applied are how we understand and use voice, I think that we can explain voice by way of the tools of language while still taking into account that it’s going to be applied by another individual with their own mind.
“Those aspects of writing which, intentionally or not, differ you from other writers.” I don’t think this deals with how we might answer the question of whether or not a voice might fit with a genre, or other questions though, not unless we understand that which makes a voice strong and actually work. Which, we can and do study.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 9:01 pm #103537
My bad. Yes. I use ellipses in texting all the time, to indicate a pause in speech or more like parentheses. It relates to my trains of thoughts and how they lay out on the page as I think them. I don’t know when I started doing it, but it’s always been a comfortable way of typing for me. I’ll work to keep them out. Sorry.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 2:07 pm #103509
Yeah! So, I mentioned a few things about the definition of voice in that it’s the objective tools subjectively applied. Now, you’re right… it might seem a bit off topic, and for that I apologize. ‘Tis not my goal. I merely enjoy working with direct application when dealing with concepts like this… because it tends to help me tie something together. Only, I tend to work from a visionary perspective, so allow me to rephrase more concretely.
I believe voice is an essential part of what creative or artistic license means. This means we have the tools we need, and then produce with those tools part of our soul (as Daeus mentioned). And if we can define what those tools are (the objective, that you spoke of) we can then learn how to form the art (or subjective as DeepRun mentioned). That being said… though it is subjective… because we are using objective tools it is something others can help us strengthen.
When I write… I pull my voice a few different places. I like to use third person… because I tend to write from the world to the character. Where my character is either derived from the world, and thus reflects its attributes, or is placed in a conflicting world, thus contrasting its attributes. But either way, I tend to write the story from the world to the character.
This is how I relate with the world, myself. So, a lot of my stories use action a lot. Action is something I’ve worked on for a long time.
A second part of my voice has to do with making the world sound like it has a voice itself. I want the story I’m telling to be told by the way the world or setting responds to things… and in so, the character doing the same.
And third, as Daeus mentioned, I have the signature of the heart I’m writing from. And I write that through the world and character, as the thread that holds it all together.
As I work all of these things… my goal is to study the flow of language, its colors and sounds. One of my favorite quotes is by Ursula LeGuin: The chief duty of a narrative sentence is to lead to the next sentence—to keep the story going. Forward movement, pace, and rhythm are words that are going to return often in this book. Pace and movement depend above all on rhythm, and the primary way you feel and control the rhythm of your prose is by hearing it—by listening to it.
I adopt this style (as much as possible), as well as looking at extremely vivid descriptors like N.D. Wilson and (finally) Markus Zusak.
I look at the rhythm in my writing through action, through that description, through the world that is sewn together by the heart of my writing, and reflects my characters. And right now, what I’m working on the most… is giving the characters depth in that flow of voice.
So, what I see is that as we strengthen the mechanics of style, syntax, and then description… and even dialogue, we’ll be able to write and work with setting our heart into the mix, and building a voice that speaks to people… a voice that seems alive
In Dostoevsky’s Brothers Karamazov… his voice is a continuous and layering flow that, if relaxed into, will carry the reader into the depth of his characters… and make them living voices. N.D. Wilson makes his worlds alive, by taking their concrete natures and building into them more concrete images that describe in vivid color (to the characters’ minds)… through the world. Markus Zusak lets the narrator of his story go. And it’s beautiful. He gives the voice of the story free reign to study the world, and connect dots. To find beauty and make the strangest connections… but that make so much sense. The voice takes the beautiful constructs of language, and pulls them together in flashes of imagery that don’t let us forget what we’re actually looking at, but only make it more vivid… in sadness, humor, and a wish to bring peace.
Is that more what you were looking for? That’s my study of voice. Some writers handle it differently… but all of them work from a basis of how they want to portray… with an objective tool of communication. Orson Scott card uses a deceptively simple prose to leave no space between the reader and character’s mind. And if a writer comes to us looking for help with voice… I’d say it starts with understanding the language… even if not by orthodox training… and learning to apply your heart through it.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 1:15 pm #103507
So then, maybe looking at the side of what the voice means? Which is highly subjective to the artist.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 6, 2020 at 11:55 am #103504
I wonder if we might think of this in the context of actually coaching someone… what would we tell them? As in, we’re there to help them… not just give advice from the side (that’s often a good and necessary thing, but I’d like to look at it from a different perspective, if only slightly).
There are two things that, when they meet in the right proportions, I think make up great coaching in many fields, especially in the realm of letting the artist learn through experience that then builds conversation to talk things out.
-An artist needs to know that he (or she) is free to work, learn, and make mistakes. That it’s a beautiful thing, and maybe the greatest part of learning is the mistakes themselves, that the coach will be there to help through that. An artist often needs the coach to help lift them up as they work, bring encouragement.
-Secondly, an artist needs to be pushed by the coach to reach goals or standards. This means the coach will probably help make sure the artist has what he needs to do this, to one degree or another… but also “requires” (in the coaching kind of way) the artist to push for it, and absorb the mistakes but push through.
Both of these are forms of encouragement, and the do overlap, and some artists need a lot more of one than the other at certain times of need.
In this context… when preparing something for an artist to pick up and look at, to figure out how to use, they want something they can trust. Something that offers hope in the short term and the long term, and probably does have at least some structure for him or her to work in. There is always a level of objectivity.
As Talyor Clogston said, it’s important to know the rules before you can break them… and I agree with this in a lot of ways, but it’s not actually how I learned. And it’s not how a lot of artists learned… and I think the writers that learn in our “unorthodox” way tend to develop voice in a more prominent manner, because they aren’t working in that structure. They pull from an intuitive place of understanding and storytelling that formulates how their writing voice flows. And it’s been my experience that orthodox training tends toward artists have less defined “voices” in distinction, where our unorthodoxly trained artists thrive in the idea of voice (even if they’re not confident in it).
If I were coaching someone… I might first off let them know that if they don’t have the voice they’re looking for, I have no doubt they’ll find it. I’d also show them where the voice is and comes through in their writing, and maybe point them to where they can develop voice. Most authors that I hear complain about their writing voice have a lot more of it than they realize… in an individual way. And though voice is subjective to the author, it is comprised of understandable and concrete ideas.
And, I’ll leave it at that for now. My brain goes on long explorations of such ideas… and I’d better hold it back for now. Please pick apart what I’ve said. Or just respond as you see fit. I’m here to talk through the ideas more. But, when I think through things like this… especially when thinking about coaching or helping… I try to figure out what is objective and what is subjective. And I think in this case, the tools are objective but can be subjectively applied… which is something that can be taught. One top of that, there are voices that hold more artistic strength than others.
*shuts his mouth to see what others have to say*
*also takes out note pad and pen*
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!January 5, 2020 at 10:06 pm #103496
*grins* Voice is one of my favorite things ever… and I’ll be following this conversation… and maybe add something at some point.
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!December 20, 2019 at 2:17 pm #102969
*nods* It’s another skill. One that’s not always the most helpful. XD
Published author, reader of many books, Student in writing, and Lumenite!December 17, 2019 at 4:16 pm #102849