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@serenity

I agree that a dead man can do nothing, and that all people are born into sin. Yes, God does have every right to condmn every single person to eternal death. So why didn’t He? I believe it’s because He loves us. But, with your argument, that would have to mean He doesn’t love some people. And somehow I don’t see that in the character of God. Do you believe that every person was made in the image of God…or just His chosen?

Can we know if we are God’s elect?

I totally agree not all people will believe…all I have to do is look around.

“I believe that when in John 3 16 salvation is extended to the world, I believe that it is extended to all kinds of men, not every man. And that, though it may seem sad, is just” Not sure how that is just. It’s definitely not fair for every person to not have a chance at life. And isn’t fairness part of justice?

“It isn’t enough to acknowledge the conquering King’s legitimacy after you’ve been conquered if you want to live; you must serve him while you have the choice.” I agree. But we have the choice. The chance to choose Him before we are forced too. You say if God wants us He’ll save us…if that’s true then why do we need to choose to serve Him?

“No one who is offered salvation turns it down, and no one who is not offered salvation may obtain it.” This is what gets at me. I believe everyon is offered salvation. Can you tell if someone has been offered salvation? Do you witness to people? But if you did wouldn’t it be pointless, because they don’t have the choice of accepting or rejecting what you present-the Gospel. So maybe you don’t, since their destiny is already decided. Yet Christ commanded His disciples to make disciples of all people. So did the disciples know which ones were chosen and which were not? Also, do you believe we can know if we are saved (or one of God’s chosen)? If not, we have no hope to offer. We cannot give what we don’t have.

“It bothers me when people say you should ‘choose Jesus’, because that really challenges the entire sovereignty of God. If we, the created, can make a choice about our eternal status, then it removes God from the picture almost entirely. in that scenario, He offers the salvation, but he has no power over us or it; we have power over God.” I disagree. In His sovreignty, He knows what we will choose – but we still have to choose. His desire is for all men to call on Him for salvation, but in His sovreignty He knoes not all men will. He has all power, but He does not force us to accept what He offers. I don’t think it removes God from the picture at all. He calls different people in different ways. Some are raised by Christians, some have a divine revelation, some look around them and see the evidence of God in nature…and so forth and so on. But in these cases, and any other, they must choose. I came to the place where I realized I could not be saved by my parents faith, by my lifestyle, by what I did or did not do. I chose to accept the forgiveness of God that has been offered to me through the blood of Jesus Christ. And if offered to me, why not every man? I cannot claim to be any more worthy of His sacrifice than any other person. I am not. As Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:15…I am chief among sinners. In Romans 6:10 it says He died once for all…do you also interpret this ‘all’ as ‘all kinds’ and not ‘all men’?

“That is not something I believe, and truly it offends me when people say that. It is an insult to God that we put ourselves in power over him. and that is exactly what we do when we claim that we had a hand in our salvation. We take credit for God’s redeeming power in our lives.” Anybody who is truly seeking would not presume to have power over God. You’re right…only God can work transforming, redeeming power in our lives. Choosing to follow Him is not assuming to take credit for salvation. If Christ had never come to this sinful earth we would be lost with no reconciliation to God. But He did come, offering that reconciliation which we (mankind) do not deserve.

“God is jealous of His glory. He will not stand to have it stolen. He will have his glory, whether we intend to glorify him or not. He is the author here, not us. We do not write our own stories. We do have free will, and we do make our own choices about many things, but God’s will cannot be thwarted. We cannot take power into our own hands.” I agree. We do not ‘write’ our stories…but we make choices in them. Have you ever read the book “Just Do Something” by Kevin DeYoung? If not, you should…every Christian seeking to do the will of God should. He talks about the will of God…His will of decree, what He has ordained – it will happen, it is what is; 2ndly, His will of desire, what He desires from us, and how things should be; 3rdly, His will of direction, what He directs us to do. I don’t claim to fully understand God’s will(s), but this book has helped. Quote: “I am simply noting that God is sovreign, but He is not the author of sin. We are under His sovreignty, but we are not free from responsibility for our actions.” End quote. When you say His will cannot be thrawted, I asaume you mean His will of decree…I agree.

So, do you belive salvation is a gift? If yes, than it is a free offer, and the price has already been paid. When one of your family or friends gives you a gift, you make the choice to take it or reject it. So it is with the greatest gift of all – salvation. If it is not a gift, then we have to earn it. We, in our falleness, have to try and strive for something that we can never get on our own. We have to surrender to the power of God, accept His gift (He paid for it), and live according to His word. Don’t you want to give good things to the people you love? And you were made in the image of God, so how much greater is God’s desire to give good things to the people He loves. Does He love every person He has ever created? I believe so. If He does, then He wants to give them good things. The greatest thing of all? Salvation. If He really cares about every person, and I believe He does, then He will not withhold the gift of salvation from them. He has offered it. Paid dearly for it. We can accept it from His generous hands with humility and thankfulness, or we can reject it in self-centerdness and denial.

This is where I stand. But I do acknowledge my ability to fail and be wrong. God is still making me into who I should be. And until I reach Heaven I cannot claim to be infallible. May we allow Him to mold us into His likeness. God bless. Have a happy Thanksgiving!