Activity

sorry folks! It seems I missed some discussion here…
about the debate, I guess that I am a Calvinist, but not as staunch as someone said. I did really resonate with how @wordsmith described Calvinism, but I figured I should put it in my own words for you, @ori-art.

1st, I don’t think that man has NOTHING to do with salvation. I believe that men have little to do with obtaining their salvation, but that it is absolutely by the Holy Spirit’s prompting and awakening to the truth. We CANNOT find God without him seeking us out first. In Ephesians 2 it says that we “were DEAD in our trespasses in which you once walked….” vs 3 “but GOD, being rich in mercy… made us ALIVE in Christ.” My question for you, @ori-art, is what can a dead man do?
Nothing. A dead man can do nothing. And though that may seem cruel to us, it is just. God, who created us to be with him, has every right to condemn us ALL to death for our rebellion against him. and that is truly what it is. If we do not actively serve him, we are actively waging war against him.
So, in God’s mercy, HE sought US out, and not all people, but only those who it pleased him to elect. My response to John 3:16 is that yes, anyone who should believe will have eternal life, but not everyone will believe! only those who the Spirit has woken to belief have the power to believe, and only through God himself.

2nd. You asked me to look at 1 Tim 2. I assume that the particular verse you were referring to is 4, where it says that God “desires all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.” My response is twofold; and I will say that I can absolutely be wrong about some things. The specific passage you mentioned is not speaking about ALL men. The word in Greek is saying kinds, not ALL, and the surrounding context makes that clear. It is talking about TYPES of men. Kings, rulers, men who are in high positions, and further on, men who lead peaceful lives. This isn’t talking about every man on Earth; this is talking about men from every station and tongue and nation on Earth. Same thing in 1 Tim 4 10 and in John. I believe that when in John 3 16 salvation is extended to the world, I believe that it is extended to all kinds of men, not every man. And that, though it may seem sad, is just. the second part is that ALL men WILL come to a knowledge of the truth, just not all men will come to said knowledge in this life. ALL men will stand before God in the Last Day, and they will know his goodness and their sin, and there proclaim Jesus and Lord. But that isn’t enough. It isn’t enough to acknowledge the conquering King’s legitimacy after you’ve been conquered if you want to live; you must serve him while you have the choice.

3rd. I didn’t feel at all like you were condemning at all in your post, so don’t feel bad. I’m glad that you shared. It really made me think for a while before responding. This is exactly what the church is for – to discuss salvation and come to a fuller knowledge of our Lord. This is good. (= Please also know the same thing about me; I don’t at all intend to condemn, but to express what I believe is the truth, that we may all come to a fuller knowledge of Christ and his amazing grace.

4th. Yes, the Ephesians chapter I quoted is only one chapter in the whole Bible, but it isn’t the only one that says that. Its all throughout Ephesians, in many of the letters of Paul, (Rom 6:23, Colossians 3, Romans 5, Philippians 2, which is really great because Christ DIED because that was the wage of sin AND the state that we were in already, so through His death we have life.) and in the entire NT.

Sin=Death. Death=our incapability to seek out God. God seeks us out and gives us the free gift of grace (Romans 5) so that we might KILL our old nature, which is death, and live for Christ who gave us that very life! No one who is offered salvation turns it down, and no one who is not offered salvation may obtain it. Those who God chooses to save are saved, and those who he does not choose to save are not saved. We do not influence that; we do not even really make a choice in the matter. It bothers me when people say you should ‘choose Jesus’, because that really challenges the entire sovereignty of God. If we, the created, can make a choice about our eternal status, then it removes God from the picture almost entirely. in that scenario, He offers the salvation, but he has no power over us or it; we have power over God.

That is not something I believe, and truly it offends me when people say that. It is an insult to God that we put ourselves in power over him. and that is exactly what we do when we claim that we had a hand in our salvation. We take credit for God’s redeeming power in our lives.

God is jealous of His glory. He will not stand to have it stolen. He will have his glory, whether we intend to glorify him or not. He is the author here, not us. We do not write our own stories. We do have free will, and we do make our own choices about many things, but God’s will cannot be thwarted. We cannot take power into our own hands.

I cant think of anything else I have to address right here, but please comment if you have questions or objections to anything I’ve said here.

Thank you all so much for sharing. It is these processes that grow us more and more into the image of Christ.

Please know also that I don’t mean to hurt, offend, or condemn anyone here. I know I speak strongly, but I try to make sure that you all know that I am a man and can err, but what I have said I think I believe until someone points out where I’m wrong.

Thank you all! I hope that this has answered your question, @ori-art.