Activity

First,

@theinconceivable1

Dude.  That’s my life.

Anyways…  🙂 I think I’m ready to continue our debate now.  I think.  Hopefully.  We’ll see.  😉

In any case, let me get started… 🙂

As for Hebrews I do agree it was a warning and that Paul was “convinced of better things in [their] case” but that, in now way, makes the warning nullified! I would equate this to me saying “Emgc if you drugs bad things will happen to you. But don’t worry, I’m convinced you won’t do drugs” That does not, in any way, rule out the possibility of you doing drugs. (+, might I add, you don’t warn someone about something that can’t happen…”

Okay, so I don’t think I made myself very clear on this point on what exactly I meant.  So let me try again, and please tell me if it makes sense.  What I believe is that this may be a warning against wandering away from Christ, NOT falling away.  To encourage us to stay completely strong in our faith, not faltering due to dangers in the world that may entice us to turn away from Jesus.  NOT saying that our faith can possibly fail.

And if not that, then I probably would agree with @selah-chelyah that it really might not have been talking about true believers in the first place.  To be perfectly honest, I’m not sure.  But I cannot possibly believe that this verse refers to someone being able to lose their salvation because it goes in direct contradiction to all of these passages, and more: John 10:28, John 6:39-40, John 6:37, Hebrews 7:25, John 18:9, John 17:2, John 5:24, John 3:15-16, Isaiah 54:17, 1 John 5:13-20, Ephesians 4:30 etc;  I’ll stop now, but there’s many, many more.

And I realize that many things in the Bible appear to be contradictions to our faulty human understandings, but that doesn’t make this one of them.  So please, explain to me why these verses DON’T mean that all true believers shall have eternal life.  ‘Cause I really just don’t understand.

As for where do I find my assurance? From the fact that I can’t lose my salvation XD (ah, I love illogical logic…)

Okay, but that didn’t really answer my question.  What’s the reason behind your ‘illogical logic’?  Am I missing something?

As far as the romans one, I totally agree, it’s talking about the Jews and Gentiles as a whole but, I would argue, it’s also talking about the individual “Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. ” Romans 11: 20-22 NASB if this is only talking about the group then if your a Jew you can’t be saved because you’ve been “broken off”. And I’m sure you agree Jews “also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”

Okay, can I please do the lazy thing here and refer you to an article?  XD Here is an article that explains why I don’t believe this passage is talking about individual salvation.  It can explain my reasons better.  Hope you don’t mind. 🙂

This verse is more shaky but I’m going to try and defend it. Right, this is talking about false teachers but that doesn’t mean they weren’t saved. Consider this verse “…even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.” 2 Peter 2: 1b how do you deny what you don’t know and, more then that, why does it say “the Master who bought them” if they weren’t christians? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

Okay, so I think this is where it comes down to whether you take the Calvinist or Armenian point of view.  (Which, just to clarify, I’m not claiming to be either at this point.  That’s another discussion…)  But, in either case, I believe that Christ died for ALL. He paid the price for ALL of us– believer and non-believer alike.  (Romans 5:8, Jn. 1:29; 1 Jn. 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:19; 1 Tim. 4:10; Heb. 2:9; Titus 2:11,etc.)  So they were “bought” by Christ, but they were never truly Christians.  Christ died for them, but they never really had saving faith.  Make sense?

Okay, I think I addressed everything… *takes deep breath*   Okay, so there you go.  Hope everything I said made sense.  Now, tell me your thoughts!

@catwing

😊

Yeah, I suppose it might not necessarily be just a writer thing, but it’s certainly not necessarily a girl thing.  You should meet my brother. XD

@eden-anderson

I just want to say that I really appreciate you sharing your beliefs with us.  I definitely don’t agree, but I can understand more now why you believe what you do, and it was really helpful for me. 🙂   I would really like to answer the questions you had, but I’m afraid I have to go, so I’ll leave it to Selah.

Anyways, just wanted to say that real quick.  God bless!