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*Groans and decides to pick and choose as this thing has gotten confusing and broad*

This is going to be long. XD

O.K. Starting with @sarah-inkdragon and @theinconceivable1

So, I’m going to lump a ton of what y’all said into a big thing and give an ENFP perspective (which does not hold for all feelers, and keep in mind that ENFPs can be odd in the realm of feelers).

“In general, a thinking type should be considered “superior”–because we’re logical, plan ahead, and pretty perfectionist. That’s generally a good thing to be, since being logical allows you to make good decisions, planning ahead allows for the ability to see mistakes or problems, and perfectionism, to a certain degree, allows for good work ethic(which is something we all need). So generally, you can assume that the thinking type would take preference over the feeler type, since feelers generally tend to be less logic-oriented and more determined on their emotions. (No offense feelers.)”

So with this here… I am a feeler, by all means! But I agree with you that people need to have a good work ethic, know how to make good decisions, use their logic, think critically, think for themselves, stand up under pressure, the whole nine yards. I am all for that, and for the record, I am a perfectionist. If I play a ten page recital piece in a recital, I will probably play pretty much perfectly, get up, bow and walk off-stage kicking myself inwardly for the five wrong notes I hit or a pedal change I missed. I am not satisfied unless it is utterly perfect. So, I would say that what you’ve just described sums up the way that thinkers generally are, but I also think that these are also just basic skills that a person needs in life. Even as a feeler.

On the question of maturity… What makes a person mature? @sarah-inkdragon, you summed it up pretty well in the realm of thinking/feeling. I can’t stand seeing an emotional breakdown in which the person is being stupid (most the time because they brought it on themselves). When girls have teenage melodrama in which I believe they are being dumb, it annoys me to no little end. I absolutely believe that we NEED mature feelers. Immature feelers drive me bonkers…

Another illustration is putting any “useful” field, medical, political, etc. Anything that we genuinely NEED in society against what I’m going to go to college for. I’m going to a Christian college (Lord-willing) for a 4-year music program with an emphasis on vocal performance. Now, when we think of society, which is better? Well, we NEED our basic needs, we need order, health and economy. So on first glance, that is more “important?” But when you understand that while medical is probably going to help keep somebody alive or help them with their physical needs, or government will keep guidelines on people and organize society, music is going to have an entirely different power, you can’t dismiss that it is a critical part of the human existence. I won’t go into it, but music is a power that we may not even think about all the time, but when you take each individual and think about them as an individual, it is probably music that will have the greater impact on their lives. For instance I’ve had to deal with a ton of annoying dental work due to smashing my mouth into a pool wall six years ago. Yes, the dentist has helped me fix my poor mouth, but Andrew Peterson who I have never met has ministered to my heart in some of my deepest needs and hopeless moments. They are two different types of power, and like thinking and feeling, we need both. Music is a lot like emotion, they have a lot of the same power.

I think in some ways, you are right that it is a matter of character rather than function.

O.K. @theinconceivable1

I agree, strongly and disagree strongly in the same moment in such a way that makes this baffling. XD

Like I said, I can’t stand a lack of self-control in areas where we need them. When a girl is running around blabbing to the world about how her life is ruined or that she is super attracted to a guy I want to claw my face off. Or when because a feeler can’t see logic and won’t see the light (which I am guilty of in some cases actually…) and doggedly makes life miserable on me or other people especially, I want to knock some sense into their head. In essence, I can’t stand stupidity in a feeler.

I believe behavior can be superior, but not their cognitive functions. I wholeheartedly believe that just because you have a dominant feeling over thinking, that doesn’t mean that you can’t think, because you DO have thinking functions. You may be more sensitive and less thick skinned than an INTJ, but you can think deeply and logically in the places where you need to. The thing that is hopeful for feelers is that they can eventually become more of a thinker and grow a tougher skin, but they will also have that insight and sensitivity to emotion that makes them much better with people than the thinkers. That is why I do not agree that cognitive functions or types can be better than other types. And believe me, certain types can really get under my skin, and I can very easily feel like they should be different. It may just be that they need a behavior change, and I need to realize that there is no superior type or cognitive function.

O.K. Now this one… I want to call you buddy, but I can’t on this site because I would be calling the wrong name, and I don’t want to sound upset again by calling you dude… This is where you are not understanding feelers. Let me quote ya here.

“’As a thinker, yes, I have an intellectual advantage over many feelers’” actually I will disagree with you there. I think, in terms of natural ablity and such, the INTJ’s brian is actually not supperior to a feelers (or, if it is, the difference is minimal.) Rather I would argue INTJ’s posses the self-control and desire for knolage most feelers lack. The fact is I know an INFJ’s who has a 4.0 GPA and ENFP who is top of his class; these are people who, dispite their inclinations, found the desire to know and the self control to do so. Both these people, in school in particular are REALLY smart (and trust me, that irks me to no end! I hate it when people are smarter then me XD) and the reason why is they have those desires. Now, in feelers, I think this is actually a sigh of unhealthiness. The desire to be the best springs out of a need for affirmation or a intense fear of failer (or what ever else) and often ends up placing them in a very unhealty place. YET, the point remains those who should be inferior in intellect are superior (at least to me. I’m certain their are feelers smarter then you too : D) Further more, I would argue ‘intelligence’ or ‘intelect’ is almsot whole determined by ones ability to learn. In my view, anyone can become top of their class if they study hard and devote every waking hour to learning. In most ways I don’t belive ‘smarts’ is a mesure of nature but rather of nuture. Not to say their ARNT factor of natuer that can hinder ones ablity to learn; there are. But if possesing the desire and the self-contol to see it though, I belive even an ESFP can become a quantum physisist; the thing is they are born inhertly laking both. So no, I dont belive an INTJ’s brian is better then others (mostly); rahter we simply posses the will for it to be. Tell me if you disagree ; D”

O.K. Here is where your opinion that cognitive functions falls apart. If everybody has the same level of smart, then they have the ability to excel. It comes down to the willpower/self-control/character to do so. Yes, an INFP might not make a great lawyer because of their sensitivity or and INTJ could be a really bad choice for a counsellor as they are probably not going to be sympathetic with people who need help.

Now, I just have to beg to disagree about it being unhealthy for feelers to have the drive and desire to excel. That is just… I’m sorry, but if you tell me that because I want to excel at something I am unhealthy, that is simply going to make me stare at you and wonder what you think I should be doing. Personally, your complaint is that feelers don’t have self-control or don’t come by it naturally. So why do you think it is unhealthy for them to have it? It is not unhealthy for us to have a strong work ethic, we NEED it. And as an ENFP, here is my experience with working hard to achieve something…

I never finished Algebra 1, I hadn’t picked up anything about math in 2 1/2-3 years and had forgotten just about everything by the time I was seventeen, and I hated math with everything in me. It didn’t make sense and I despised it (I still feel that way). Yet I was taking CLEP tests as my high school and the time came to take College Mathematics. It took me several months to get it down, but I knew I had to do it. I worked extremely hard on it, and I passed. I have a lot of other test stories too, but I can tell you that all of them I did because I wanted to take them, not because I felt insecure.

If I want something enough that I will stick to it, I want it for me, not affirmation. I think this is probably the way other ENFPs are too, the other one I spent time with in real life was like this. If I have latched onto something I want to accomplish, you will break me before you get that thing from me. Sometimes you even manage to break me temporarily and I’ll still come back. I love a good challenge and if I have made up my mind to excel at it/accomplish it, it is very hard, almost impossible to stop me. The other ENFP I have witnessed was the same way. She wanted what she wanted for the challenge, not the acceptance. We appreciate applause and admiration, but not acceptance.

In the end, I would not label (especially an ENFP) a high achieving feeler unhealthy because their desire to be the best came from an insecurity or that it is unhealthy. J. R. R. Tolkien was an INFP and is the literary giant of the fantasy genre.

I do agree that with your statement about the ESFP. XD That type of human… In the immature sense… Drives me poor brain bananas. XD Yet I do agree that they can do well if they choose to.

“Ti dominants are definitively smarter. their conclustions are well backed, thoroughly examoned, and well, right XD Us Te’s on the other hand are hasty to jump to conclustions.”

Hold up… You just said that no type is smarter in your last paragraph. 😉 I would say that Ti is awesome, but it doesn’t make a person smarter. Yes, armed with Te I often have to write out my thoughts to make sense of them or have very long conversations with myself out loud, but that doesn’t mean that Te is less smart, it’s just that we have to understand our own brains and know how to make them behave properly. AKA, don’t just blab something that you haven’t thought through. XD Self-control again.

@sarah-inkdragon

On Ti/Te and Fi/Fe… I have Te and Fi. I haven’t quite gotten a firm understanding of how those functions really play out, but I wouldn’t call Te/Ti a matter of smarter, I’d call it a matter of understanding how your brain works and how to use it. Yes, it does go back to scientist/speaker again, but I wouldn’t call one or the other smarter necessarily. I’m not actually convinced that there are not some people who genuinely have a higher IQ, or some people who are just genuinely a little slower. So as for changing from Ti to Te… I don’t know that you can actually change that without actually changing your personality, and your cognitive functions are simply the way your brain works so… I’d say once more it’s a matter of character. My mom is much more of an introvert and nervous about public speaking. She stresses and prepares for it long in advance. At the same time, she is doing a lot more of it because she believes she should. Then you have me who doesn’t really know what real stage fright is. I absolutely love performing, acting, anything that puts me on stage. It just comes naturally to me whereas my mom has to push herself to do it. I’d say it’s more a matter of character once more, or nurturing nature to develop strengths you don’t naturally come by. I’m always surprised when somebody says they’re terrified of speaking in front of people when I think they’re great speakers. I don’t really think you can really change your cognitive functions, but you can develop your character and learn how to use your noggin to the best of its ability. XD

@taylor-clogston

Thank you for adding that!! I totally agree with that. We can be so glad that God didn’t treat us how he logically should have treated us. He gave us emotion in the first place so that we could love him. That’s one of the things that proves we are created in his image. Thank you for adding that! 🙂

@lina-j-douglas

Oh thank you!! That was awesome!! I totally agree, especially with your last paragraph.

“MBTI isn’t about showing how some types have better functions than others- it’s about showing how a person thinks and why they do the things they do. Each person has their strengths and weaknesses, and MBTI is simply a tool to understand this better. There is no function that trumps the rest. We need a balance of thinkers and feelers in this world to grow and learn effectively.”

Thank you very much, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say (and not communicating well probably).