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  • Mr.Trip Williams replied to the topic Looking for Beta Readers for a 66k Fantasy Romance in the forum Romance Writers 3 years, 12 months ago

    I understand your interpretation and position on the issue, but I disagree with the severity and application of your position. Nor do I believe it is a matter of sin but of conviction. Just as it would be wrong for a baptist to claim that dancing or playing cards is a sin for any Christian to do (David danced in the streets and it is used multiple times as examples of praise to God in the Bible) and just as it would be wrong for a 7-day adventist to say it is a sin for all Christians to treat one day more special than the next – perfect examples of what Paul was saying about food offered to idols.

    To say the pharisees were only concerned about power and how they were seen in the eyes of men is partly true but also a misreading of historic events. There were pharisees who were certainly not like that. Two of them showed loyalty to Jesus, one of which provided his own personal tomb to lay Jesus in. In today’s age, we call a pharisee a certain type of people, but back then, a pharisee was a teacher of the law. Paul, likewise, was a pharisee before he became a Christ follower.

    After the book of Malachi, there was a long time period in which to the nation of Israel, it seemed that God was silent. During that time, after such a long history of cyclic falling away from God, getting punished and taken captive by foreign powers, turning to God, being set free then falling away from God again – over and over, the nation of Israel formed the sect called the Pharisees, a group to oversee that Israel doesn’t fall away from God again. They set stricter limitations in the hopes that Israel wouldn’t fall away again. It’s exactly what a lot of baptists do in relation to playing card games. the Bible warns against gambling, so many baptists ban all card games, even though many card games are not gambling games. In creating stricter rules, they hope to keep themselves from sinning.

    So far from wanting just power and being seen as good in the eyes of men, the sect of pharisees were originally the more strict disciplinarians who desired to obey God so much that they went to extremes. That’s not to say that there weren’t those who were after power and to look good in the eyes of man, but the whole picture should be considered, not just the corruptive examples of the system.

    I would say this does apply to this conversation. For, according to you, Christians are sinning when they go watch a Harry Potter movie or read one of those books – or any other similar ‘magical’ story. I strongly believe that is a matter of conviction, not morality. Idolatry is blatantly a sin, and many Christian pharisees of Pauls day claimed that it was a sin to eat any meat offered to idols because of multiple reasons – 1) the pagans believed that the meat offered to idols was therefore blessed by those false gods (2) by purchasing the meat, you are actually supporting that business, and if I remember correctly, that money would go to the temple of whatever idol it was offered to.

    However, Paul argued that there was nothing behind it. The idols were false, and the meat was not blessed. The meat would not defile you for eating it, and meat offered to idols was actually cheaper than other meat in the market. Paul said if it does not conflict with your conviction, then it is not a sin to eat such meat. However, some people, their convictions keeps them from eating such meat. To do so would be a sin for them. Then Paul admonished us to not cause our brothers to sin in whatever we do, so if for someone, their conviction keeps them from eating meat offered to idols, don’t partake in such meat while with them. etc.

    I have a conviction of bearing my head when I pray. If I am wearing a hat, I take it off, and I also take my glasses off. For me, it is a sign of respect. That doesn’t make it a sin if someone else does not do so.

    As far as the biblical mandate. I can’t help but wonder if too much is being read into it, similar to the baptist position on gambling. Drinking is another example. Many Christians claim drinking is a sin – however, Jesus himself drank alcohol (in fact, he was falsely accused of being a drunkard!). Getting drunk is sinful, yes, but even though my personal conviction is that I will not drink, even if it is just one sip, that doesn’t mean I see it as sinful if someone else does.

    So here are the very verses you refer to:

    2 Chronicles 33:6 – He sacrificed his children in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced divination and witchcraft, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, arousing his anger.

    1 Samuel 15:23 – For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you as king.”

    Galatians 5:19-21 – The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality,impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Leviticus 19:26 – Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.“‘Do not practice divination or seek omens.

    Leviticus 19:31 – Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.

    Divination, witchcraft, omens, mediums, and spiritists – we see their power as coming from the demonic realm. Plus, sacrificing children is an abomination until the Lord and one of the most despicable things you could do… So yes, he did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, arousing his anger. Let me use Harry Potter as an example, just because it is one of the more popular examples. Magic in Harry Potter does not stem from the demonic realm.

    And as far as spiritual powers, God grants his children spiritual powers all the time, many times we don’t think about it. Prophecy = divination but from God, not demonic. Miracles =witchcraft, but from God, not demonic. Samson had a superpower given by God with the stipulation that three rules be adhered. When all three were broken, Samson’s power was taken away. It is not a sin to read such a story from the Bible, even though the protagonist uses spiritual/supernatural powers that are contrary to the natural laws and cannot be classified as a natural inborn talent.

    The ONLY thing the Bible CLEARLY says is a sin is to practice or turn to divination, witchcraft, mediums, or spiritists. And I think it is very interesting and revealing that after saying do not turn or practice these things, the Bible says, “I am the Lord your God” – as in, turning to those things are trying to find answers out side God. It is, therefore, a form of idolatry – turning to something besides God or placing something before God in your life.

    To read about magic, witchcraft, or other such things – true, it could easily lead toward sin. Just as playing cards can lead to gambling, drinking alcohol can lead to being drunk, and eating meat offered to idols can lead to people being led astray. But that does not mean it is a SIN in and of itself.

    THE issue with the pharisees was NOT that they wanted power and to be seen as good in front of people. THE issue with the pharisees was that they missed the point. They wanted to make sure NO ONE sinned, so they made their rules super strict and it became a burden on the people. This verse says it best, I think, even though it is from the Old Testament – Hosea 6:6 – For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. Even though sacrifice and burnt offerings was the way to get right with God, God desires relationship more than he does following rote rules. Yes, he wants us to obey his rules, but if we just follow rules to the point of rigidity, we become pharisees and we miss the point.

    Jesus ate with drunkards and sinners. He hung out with prostitutes and tax-collectors. Things that many well-meaning Christians today would balk at and find fault with him for.

    The bottom line, to kind of tie things together, is that most magic systems within fantasy worlds are not demonic and are not attempting to pull us away from God. We are not defiling ourselves by exposing ourselves to it. Another perfect example would be – – I am not sinning by reading C. S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia, even though the first book has Santa Clause in it, even though Santa Claus is clearly a good character that uses magic – and other protagonists in the series uses magic for good.

    Please DO NOT hear me wrong here.

    I am not saying you are wrong in your beliefs. What I am saying is it is a conviction, and to force your interpretation and conviction on others by saying it is a sin to write or read such materials is putting a heavy burden on others that God never meant to be there.

    You can feel free to disagree with me, and you probably will. But please do not impugn my moral standing before the Lord due to my interpretation and conviction.

     

     

    (On a side note, my novel does not have any

    use of supernatural/magical/demonic power by the protagonists portrayed in a this-is-not-a-sin way
    at all. So although we disagree, there should be no conflict with the novel I have written. For it does not have anything of that sort.)

     

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