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September 1, 2021 at 2:08 pm #137343December 23, 2019 at 8:27 pm #103127
To answer your question about brainstorming: there is some brainstorming that takes place before I begin the outline…typically when a story idea comes to me, I think about it for a week and analyze it for its strengths and weaknesses and whether or not I like it enough to stick to it. That involves brainstorming on pretty much every level (character, plot, theme, atmosphere, vague feelings that my brain wants to convey… you get the point :D)
If I end up deciding to write the story, then I start taking notes, and sooner or later I start the outline. Most of my best ideas come while I’m outlining, actually. Really, when it comes down to it, brainstorm happens throughout the entire writing process, no matter how you do it 😀
Hope that helps some 🙂December 22, 2019 at 6:51 pm #103088
Hi there! 😀
Personally, outlining is part in the writing process where I have the most fun. Planning and plotting come pretty natural to me. One thing that I have noticed about outlining, however, is that not all methods work with all books.
For example, I have two WIP right now, one historical fiction and another set in the modern day. The historical fictional one is much more detailed and has taken much longer to create because I am working with both the historical world and the fictional world. The outline for the fictional story is much shorter and I will probably end up making up some of it as I go, just because of what the story is like.
Here’s a quick example of how I do my outlining for my historical fiction story.
- Katherine and the Queen Scene
- Katherine enters the Queen’s apartments and bows (the Queen quickly tells her come closer) and is seated near her on a cushioned chair.
- They have a conversation, and there’s a sense that the Queen is trying to feel her out. She soon rises to the unspoken challenge, (a match of wits and words) and the Queen seems to like that. At one of her answers, the Queen seems to smother a smile.
- (Conversation flow goes like this: Queen asks about the journey, what she thinks of Coventry, the well being of her lady mother and their household, Katherine asks about “young prince Edward” and the King’s health.)
- Her brother John’s marriage is mentioned/brought up. Katherine isn’t sure how much to say or if she should even talk about it at all, but the Queen tells her to “never mind diplomacy and politics, marriage is a woman’s matter—tell me what you think of the affair. Would they be a good match?”
- Katherine then gains a little more confidence and speaks in favor of it..
The Queen is quiet after this pronouncement. “Well, I suppose we will see if things work out that way.”
- End scene
So, as you see, I am pretty detailed most of the time. It’s not like this all the way through, however…sometimes I write full conversations and other times it’s just the bare bones. In total, I probably have over 70 pages of outlining for this story.
My advice to you would be to figure out how detailed you need to be to be able to draft. For this HF story, I find myself getting writer’s block pretty quick if I don’t know enough about the scene I’m writing (especially when it comes to dialogue and important, plot-heavy conversations.)
It’s different for my modern-day story, however. I can draft it with a tiny outline and it still comes naturally.
So that’s why I believe it’s different for every writer, and probably for every book as well. It all depends on if it makes it easier for you to write the first draft—that’s where you’re trying to get to.
Hope this helps some! Have fun figuring out your writing process! 😀
September 5, 2019 at 11:17 am #96428
- This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by LRC.
Anyway. I don’t have enough time to keep up with SE most of the time, so while I look forward to seeing all your guy’s replies, I can’t promise I’ll be around keep the conversation going 😀 Just know it’s because I’m really busy, not because I don’t like you all 😉
God bless!September 5, 2019 at 10:02 am #96418
So, it seems that a lot of people connection “clean” books to “books for children.” They are recommend as such and they are marketed as such. Examples:
So are what point has the category switched from “clean” to “not clean”? If I were to say, “I want more clean books” I would mean less sex, less cursing, and less immoral relationships. But that doesn’t mean that it is good for kids.
Does this mean I think that books with more mature content should be labeled “clean” and allowed to be read by not mature enough kids(and adults)? No.
I think there are many readers who would agree with your definition–but I’ve also seen readers who would put things like abuse or adultery in the “not clean” category.
All of which I completely agree with—there’s great books that my younger siblings have to be older to read—but that has nothing to do with the cleanness of the book, it’s what topics are discussed. Basically what @valtmy said.
A “clean” book can deal with mature topics but I suppose it depends on how they are portrayed and how much they dwell on the “details” as opposed to the consequences.
Personally, I think we, as a community, should start to market books as clean-but-handling-mature-topics (if your writing has them, which most of ours probably do). Put a suggested age limit on it or something.
@josiah, you also said that you side with the idea that
“clean fiction” is supposed to define a market genre for a general audience
Do you really think that is the best definition, or should we as a community attempt to change that? Why are we excepting the general audience’s definition of clean (whitewashed for all children) and unclean? Why can’t all of us write relatively clean books, call them “clean”, but then market them as for older readers, or readers of a specific age range?
Older readers ought to watch what goes into their mind too. There ought to be market, or at least an openness, for clean-but-mature fiction. Why don’t we try to move the marketing in that direction? Do you think it would be too hard?
Oh, and if you all want an example, The Count of Monte Cristo is a great one. It’s clean, yet mature. It deals with the darkness of the human heart, adultery, death, and mentions a host of other things that are in the world. Yet it is portrayed as sin. (I could go on and on…I love that book.)
September 5, 2019 at 9:33 am #96416
- This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by LRC.
Welllll, I haven’t read LotR, so I can’t comment on that one, lol. If it’s just as you described I would consider it clean, yet maturer in theme. Oh, and you said
Cleanliness, to me, means that I’m not going to stumble across a sex scene or some weird cult, or have to sit through 400 pages of swearing. Cleanliness does not mean that we can’t handle things like mental illnesses, abuse, injuries, war, etc. It shouldn’t mean that we can’t handle these things.
which I ompletely, completely agree with 😀 That’s what I was trying to say, to point out that a book being clean and a book handling mature themes are not mutually exclusive…was I clear enough on that?
However, you kinda lose me here…
The few books I’ve read that don’t whitewash some things were amazing, but still had some sense of the “clean” appearance too them. Not that that’s bad–but I think that we should portray the world as it is in it’s fallen state, not glorify it to be better than it is.
If a story hasn’t been whitewashed, and yet still has a sense of what is good and what is evil, isn’t that a good thing…? The way some have talked about “portraying the world” really seems to throw off warning signs in my head because I have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s very vague.July 25, 2019 at 10:20 pm #93875July 25, 2019 at 9:50 pm #93873
Hey fellow HFers, I’m feeling chatty so I’m going to start a conversation. No promises on finishing it though, lol. 😉
What has been the worst historical fiction book you’ve ever read and why? Was it the theme, or lack there of? Modern characters stuffed into the past? Too much fiction that it changed the history?
We all know how hard it is to choose a favorite book so there’s a new spin on the question. I both love and very much dislike this topic. Beware of rants.
For me, I’ve read so many bad HF books (at least the time period that I write in, the 1400s) that it kinda low-key enrages me—but on the upside it motivates me to write.
Btw, @seekjustice, they say you live in the future. What is it like there? Is the sky a different shade of blue, do little boys still bring their mothers bugs and toads? Have we learned lesson from the past or are we forever doomed to the same mistakes? 😛July 25, 2019 at 8:48 pm #93859
Well, you asked for it 😉
Riordan. A wandering minstrel with an adventurous but secret past. War of the Roses circa 1457.
#1. He laughed a little and looked at her thoughtfully. “You know, child, you’ve only to ask, and I’ll come back.”
#2. “For every friend I make, an enemy appears nearby.”
#3. “This is not a battle I choose to fight! I have nothing—will have nothing—to do with this.”
Will get a few more characters to put on here later. 😀July 16, 2019 at 12:50 pm #93435
True. 🙂 I would prefer something like this over a college any day, lol.
*puts it on my future to-do list*July 15, 2019 at 7:07 pm #93369July 12, 2019 at 10:01 am #93182
History is such a tricky thing because in most wars, each side had good and each side had bad. I thought I had always known that, but in studying the Wars of the Roses era I found it all the more true. I’m sure if someone wanted to spend the time, money, frustration, and tears they could power through books and articles (and family trees because…fun…) on the Civil War and find a good middle ground. And as much as I love diving in and learning new things (and then talking people’s ears off about it), that person can’t be me. I started to read through this whole thread, had a hundred things to say, and then decided to give up. 😀
@his-bard, Your story idea sounds cool. A ton of people have already recommended books, so I will just suggest finding and reading at least some of them. 😉 Also, I looove that line you said:
Now, I was, am, and always will be, a natural skeptic of all things ever.
I completely agree, lol. 😀
P.S. My fictional minstrel/bard says hello and God speed. 😀June 17, 2019 at 10:28 pm #91651
Has had multiple definitions over the years, it seems. Here’s one:
“Originally a small allowance given to a woman in order to purchase clothes etc. for herself. More recently it is used to describe any small amount of money which might be earned by children or the low-paid for some service.” (Source: https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/pin-money.html)
And then here’s a short article about some of the others and how they might have come up: http://www.word-detective.com/2013/07/pin-money
And that’s only super quick research, so who knows if any of it’s right. 🙂
June 17, 2019 at 9:53 pm #91643
- This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by LRC.
Thanks so much! I just requested access, let me know if you get it. 🙂 It didn’t give a note option but should come in as my name I think. I won’t bother you until July, then. Looking forward to it! 🙂June 17, 2019 at 9:34 pm #91639
Hi, Inkspiller! Nice to meet you too! Thanks, I’ll add you my list of contacts for future dart-throwing. 😀 (Great analogy by the way.)
Yes, I have read The Black Arrow, and it’s pretty good! Honestly it’s one of the few good books set in that time period, at least that I’ve read. Most others have inappropriate stuff in them or are just really dry and have two-dimensional characters.