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Showing Internal Conflict

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  • #144761
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    Is he using an arming sword, a sidesword, or something else?

    I believe an arming sword (or a practice version of it), but I’ll look into that. xD

    Less is more, focus on the feeling you’re trying to show with it, and this is one time where you can get away with telling. Sometimes telling is better than showing. Just your point across as briefly and economically as possible.

    Great examples! I’ll work on that. Also, thank God for cabbage, I’m keeping the lavender.

    I suppose I’ll scratch the lace though. Oh, and I’ll get back to ya on the scarlet and black colors things soon. 😏

    Do you think it would ever be appropriate to have characters with shirts tucked into belts in the medieval France,

    I was chatting with Cathy and I was gushing about how much I was enjoying your manuscript and she mentioned she hadn’t got it yet. Is that an oversight or are you planning to ask her for a later round of revisions?

    Oh, Cathy. 😄 I sent her the beta document and she just got back to me last night, so if anything, she’s the tardy one. 😉

    I’ll get it to her this evening hopefully.

    And when I say I was gushing about it that wasn’t an exaggeration. I just excitedly and confusedly narrated the plot to my family while flapping my cloak like a hyperactive bat. (Yes, I was wearing a cloak in the house. It’s winter. I was cold.) That plot twist in the second part though!!!

    *suppresses my elated reaction to reading that*

    I’m glad you’re enjoying it. 🙂

    Also, Rose, you really were born in the wrong era. You’re a cloak wearing, horse riding, sword wielding, warrior woman.


    @erynne

    I’m leaving but I must tell you that you need to catch or on our other thread. I’ve since become President and I answered your question on predestination. I saw you turned your notifications off which was a TERRIBLE move man

    Erynne, Erynne, calm down.😄

    I have my notifications turned off for every thread on SE, I don’t like the emails. Instead, I get onto SE and check my notifications  there (and I’m still getting them from that thread, trust me), I’ll respond momentarily my friend.

    #144767
    Erynne
    @erynne

    @Noah-Cochran

    If you say so 😝😝

    And do NOT call me your “friend” unless you absolutely mean it. I take that sorta stuff too seriously XD

    Be weird. Be random. Be who you are. Because you ever know who would love the person you hide.

    #144801
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    I believe an arming sword (or a practice version of it), but I’ll look into that. xD

    If you have any specific questions about that and its use, I can toss them into my HEMA club’s group chat. I’ll bet there’s someone who knows stuff about it, and most people are happy to answer questions.

    Great examples! I’ll work on that. Also, thank God for cabbage, I’m keeping the lavender.

    Well, that’s a weird sentence in any context XD

    Do you think it would ever be appropriate to have characters with shirts tucked into belts in the medieval France,

    I can’t think of a specific reason why not. It’s just essentially a short tunic and belts were pretty much standard.

    Oh, Cathy.   I sent her the beta document and she just got back to me last night, so if anything, she’s the tardy one.

    I’ll get it to her this evening hopefully.

    Oohh, @this-is-not-an-alien you’re the late one here XD

    *suppresses my elated reaction to reading that*

    I’m glad you’re enjoying it.

    LOL, don’t suppress happiness, life is hard enough as it is XD

    Also, Rose, you really were born in the wrong era. You’re a cloak wearing, horse riding, sword wielding, warrior woman.

    One of the best compliments I’ve ever received. I cannot stress enough how fantastic cloaks are though. It’s like wearing a blanket, but make it dramatic. I’m so glad I gave into the urge to make one a couple years back. The urge is returning, I need a second one.

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #144940
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    So, here I am to dissect what isn’t working about that second fight scene. It’s not necessarily bad, but it isn’t working as it should.

    I think you need to simplify. You have so much stuff going on, and all of it is cool but I lost track of what was happening.

    You have three points of view, ten pages of action, and like eleven named characters, most of whom are in the fight at the same time.

    Any one of these is fine by itself, but the combination of all of them makes it complex and hard to follow. I had to really focus to keep track of who was where and doing what, and by the end of the last page I had no clue who had the book and who had succeeded and who was hurt. It was exciting so I wanted to keep reading, but it was long and I got tired.

    This isn’t necessarily bad, but you’re writing it the same way you wrote the earlier fight scene, like a one-on-one fight, except multiply it. That worked great because you only had two characters and one fight to focus on.

    Thankfully, this isn’t a hard fix! It’s more a kill-your-darlings solution. You’re going to have to cut some of it, but it will make it more realistic.

    So, as far as I remember, besides Joelle and Hugon and Tristan constantly fighting with each other, (That dynamic where they were all trying to get the other one to team up with them was fantastic though, loved that) you also had a bunch of side-fights. Rolant, Piers, Maven, Bayard, Joelle’s sidekickes, Delphine, and Adrienne were all in fights of their own, and they got nearly the same amount of detail as the main characters’ fights. It makes you feel like you have to focus on everything at once.

    Observing someone else fighting while you’re fighting is virtually impossible, you’re completely laser-focused on your opponent if the fight is hard enough.

    So, I’d write it more like a battle and eliminate some of the characters.

    That doesn’t necessarily mean injuring them enough to put them out of a fight, though I do recommend some of that. You had a long, intense, hard fight scene with many weapons and skilled fighters and the amount of injuries, as far as I can remember, is one cut on someone’s forearm.

    There’s always the struggle of injuring your characters enough to be realistic but not so much that it gets in the way of plot. I’ll leave that up to you to fix, but even non-dangerous, quickly resolved injuries go a long way. I’m talking scrapes, cuts, bruises. (With swords and daggers, hands are really vulnerable because they’re closest.)

    Besides that, get them out of the way. Just, out of the POV character’s field of view. Mention something like they caught a glimpse of Person 1 and Person 2 getting in a fight and then a page later one of them shows back up injured.

    With battles and bigger fights, I’ve found the best way is to break it up in sections. A POV character won’t be actively engaged in a fight all of the time. As soon as there’s a lull, assess what has changed with the others, then plunge back into it. (That also means keeping the POV deep works best. You already had a pretty deep POV, just something that might help.)

    Now, changing points of view isn’t a bad thing, in fact, it can be helpful, but check to make sure every time is absolutely needed.

    Also, you have two fights consecutively. Instead, you could split up the groups, that would simplify your fight scenes. For example, you could get Hugon, Joelle, and Tristan to get through to the final room while the others fight it out off-screen.

    Just an idea, I can’t tell you exactly how to solve this. You know your book better than I do, I think you see what I mean.

    The scenes themselves are fine, the placement and results work, and the plan to set the mews and stables on fire is pretty genius. I liked that Delphine and Bayard got a part.

    Toggling several characters at once is hard, I often eliminate several of them early on, either by getting them injured or giving them something to do that the reader assumes they just keep working on.

    I hope this explained it alright, I think you see what I mean 🙂

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #144957
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    Well, that’s a weird sentence in any context

    Hey now, don’t you dare disrespect purple cabbage, I love that stuff. Load it down with garlic powder and olive oil, and then put it in the oven for half an hour while you go out and barbecue a massive pork stake, and you’ve got yourself one delicious entree.

    If you have any specific questions about that and its use, I can toss them into my HEMA club’s group chat. I’ll bet there’s someone who knows stuff about it, and most people are happy to answer questions.

    I am putting together a list of medieval life questions to give to you someday, so I’ll probably be taking you up on that offer.

    One of the best compliments I’ve ever received. I cannot stress enough how fantastic cloaks are though. It’s like wearing a blanket, but make it dramatic. I’m so glad I gave into the urge to make one a couple years back. The urge is returning, I need a second one.

    No need to convince me, I was sold on the cloak right at the beginning with the flapping bat story, a cloak is now definitely on my “I need this eminently” list.

    So, here I am to dissect what isn’t working about that second fight scene. It’s not necessarily bad, but it isn’t working as it should.

    Excellent advice (and along the lines I thought you would be talking), I will be saving that post for my next revision. 🙂

    #145016
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    Hey now, don’t you dare disrespect purple cabbage, I love that stuff. Load it down with garlic powder and olive oil, and then put it in the oven for half an hour while you go out and barbecue a massive pork stake, and you’ve got yourself one delicious entree.

    Ech, I don’t like cabbage in any form and I’ve never eaten pork, so I’ll pass 😉

    I am putting together a list of medieval life questions to give to you someday, so I’ll probably be taking you up on that offer.

    Awesome, I’ll do my best on all of them, but I’ll bet they’ll be able to answer those I can’t. Everyone there is a history nerd, it’s amazing. Nowhere else will you find people nerding about Latin pronounciation, which languages Hannibal spoke, and the balance of swords. These folks translate Medieval German manuscripts for fun.

    Not that I’m complaining, it’s amazing. Nobody has ever won my respect faster than the guy who correctly listed all of Hannibal’s mercenary troops during the Second and Third Punic Wars off the top of his head in casual conversation.

    No need to convince me, I was sold on the cloak right at the beginning with the flapping bat story, a cloak is now definitely on my “I need this eminently” list.

    The only reason cloaks ever went out of fashion is cowardice. They knew cloaks were too powerful.

    Excellent advice (and along the lines I thought you would be talking), I will be saving that post for my next revision.

    Awesome, I’m glad it helped!

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #145059
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

    I return with answers! I asked for some resources on arming swords and early medieval swords during a call with some members of my HEMA club and got some answers.

    For research, there are two YouTube channels they recommended. I’ll link them in the next post. I just quickly skimmed through them, but they seem useful.

    Besides that, our coach said that triangular shields were commonly used with arming swords since full armor wasn’t yet developed beyond chainmail. Besides that, he mentioned that swords were in their transitional period between viking swords and the familiar medieval sword.

    The earliest manuscript on swords is Manuscript I. 33, from the thirteen-hundreds, so everything before that isn’t sure.

    Anyway, I’ll link the arming-sword videos below. Hope that helps! Tell me if you have any more questions, I’ll see if I can ask them next time.

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #145060
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

     

    Arming Sword basics

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #145062
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @noah-cochran

     

    A guy who does a lot with earlier medieval/viking swords

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #145068
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    I return with answers!

    I appreciate all the work you’re putting into this, it’s of immense valuable to me.

    Okay, I bookmarked both the channels, and I’ll add them to this week’s to-do list. I do have one question though. What do you mean my triangular shields? From what I’ve read, the circular shield was the earlier version, and then the kite shaped shield took over in popularity in the high middle ages (though circular and diamond shields were also used) for both knights and infantry. Have I  totally overlooked a version of shield?

    The only reason cloaks ever went out of fashion is cowardice. They knew cloaks were too powerful.

    😂 For some reason, I found that unreasonably amusing.

    Not that I’m complaining, it’s amazing. Nobody has ever won my respect faster than the guy who correctly listed all of Hannibal’s mercenary troops during the Second and Third Punic Wars off the top of his head in casual conversation.

    It sounds like history lover heaven, and if your goal was to make me jealous, you’re doing an excellent job. xD 😉 I have never met another person in rl that loves history–unless the history is world war two or American history, and at this point, I think my search my be futile. So I compliment you on your congenial situation–minus the tax fraud government. 😄

    Ech, I don’t like cabbage in any form and I’ve never eaten pork, so I’ll pass

    I can understand not liking cabbage (I used to not like it either), but no pork? Is that a ethnic group thing, family choice, or personal lack of trying excellent cuisine 😉

    #145080
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    I can understand not liking cabbage (I used to not like it either), but no pork? Is that a ethnic group thing, family choice, or personal lack of trying excellent cuisine

    *dude she’s Jewish*

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #145081
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    (also thanks for the links to sword-fighting here @rose-colored-fancy 😉 )

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #145082
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    *dude she’s Jewish*

    Figured, but I wasn’t certain. 🙂

    But Rose, this opens up a whole other category of me picking your brain for knowledge. Over the last two weeks I have been researching Jews and Muslims in the middle ages (their culture, customs, hairstyles xD ), have you studied that much?

    #145086
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    *dude she’s Jewish*

    LOL, it’s not Noah’s fault for not knowing, you’re one of like three people I’ve told XD

    (also thanks for the links to sword-fighting here rose-colored-fancy)

    You’re welcome! Have fun with it!


    @noah-cochran

    Figured, but I wasn’t certain.

    I feel the need to clarify that I am Messianic Jewish, which essentially means that we follow the laws of the Torah but believe Jesus Christ was the son of God, who came to earth to die for our sins etc etc.

    Some people group Messianics as a Christian denomination, some as a sub-group of Judasim, some as a seperate religion.

    I’m happy to answer any further questions you have about that! 🙂

    But Rose, this opens up a whole other category of me picking your brain for knowledge. Over the last two weeks I have been researching Jews and Muslims in the middle ages (their culture, customs, hairstyles xD ), have you studied that much?

    As much as possible which isn’t a lot. It’s freakishly hard to find resources, you wouldn’t believe.

    The one source I can think of off the top of my head is SnappyDragon on YouTube. She’s a Historical costumer and Jewish, so she has quite a few videos about that. She’s great, I recommend checking her out.

    For my WIP, my main characters are pretty Jewish coded, and once you know that you can’t unsee it. I use a lot of traditions and commandments we follow and try to work them into worldbuilding. It’s very fun!

    I appreciate all the work you’re putting into this, it’s of immense valuable to me.

    Sure! Glad I could help!

    Okay, I bookmarked both the channels, and I’ll add them to this week’s to-do list. I do have one question though. What do you mean my triangular shields? From what I’ve read, the circular shield was the earlier version, and then the kite shaped shield took over in popularity in the high middle ages (though circular and diamond shields were also used) for both knights and infantry. Have I  totally overlooked a version of shield?

    … I meant kite-shaped XD Translation machine short-circuted. It seems it was either a kite-shaped shield or a heater-shaped shield, but the former is more likely since the other was developed once leg armor improved.

     For some reason, I found that unreasonably amusing.

    But I’m right 😉

    It sounds like history lover heaven, and if your goal was to make me jealous, you’re doing an excellent job. xD   I have never met another person in rl that loves history–unless the history is world war two or American history, and at this point, I think my search my be futile. So I compliment you on your congenial situation–minus the tax fraud government.

    It’s amazing! It’s definitely the first group of people I’ve met that are also into history, as you say.

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #145090
    Noah Cochran
    @noah-cochran

    @rose-colored-fancy

    I feel the need to clarify that I am Messianic Jewish

    That was literally the first thing that jumped into my mind when Cathy said you were Jewish (because you had mentioned Jesus saving people, and Judaism most definitely does not believe that).

    As much as possible which isn’t a lot. It’s freakishly hard to find resources, you wouldn’t believe.

    I’ve watched several of Snappy Dragon’s videos, she has great content. The only thing I don’t like about her is that she likes to mention how she is an agnostics and that she left Judism in several of her videos. It gets annoying. xD

    Well, let me ask you at least a couple questions. Firstly, did Jewish women always wear head coverings in the medieval era? (Snappy makes it seem like they do) Secondly, were the Jewish quarters of towns walled in during the 12th and 13th centuries?

    I meant kite-shaped XD Translation machine short-circuted. It seems it was either a kite-shaped shield or a heater-shaped shield, but the former is more likely since the other was developed once leg armor improved.

    Okay, that makes me feel better. I almost called that other shield  “heater-shaped” but I’ve got in a habit of calling it a diamond shaped shield (it just sounds less weird xD).

    But I’m right

    Of course you are. With a cloak, and skills like yours, you’ll be the world’s first superhero.

    Btw, what is the difference between a mantle and a cloak? At first I thought it was that mantle’s couldn’t have hoods, but now I’m just confused.

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