August 15, 2018 at 2:21 pm #43763August 15, 2018 at 3:05 pm #43764
@evelyn @anne-of-lothlorien @skye @ericawordsmith
Yes! I totally agree on the dances thing.
And yes, although I think some people see it as a stiff politeness, I think that for many guys it’s just awkward. And also there might be somewhat of an influence saying that guys shouldn’t be fun and cheerful in the presence of girl, but I don’t think that’s big.
I think the largest problem, is that either they’re not taught to be gentlemen, or that if they do know that they are supposed to be a certain way, they don’t know how, because of how confusing and mixed our culture is.
Honestly, sometimes it’s hard to know how far to go in being nice when with a girl.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 15, 2018 at 3:07 pm #43765
Maybe a better word (as opposed to nice) would be familiar. The line of how far to go is not well established in our culture. It’s really messed up.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 15, 2018 at 10:22 pm #43790
Oh my goodness no, that is not at all what I meant. I wholeheartedly believe the same thing, that God is sovereign and that he predestines and preordains history, I completely believe that (I’m Reformed Baptist [and am oddly therefore into church history]).
What I mean by that is that our heroes that we write about show what God intends for his people to be. Like, instead of the heroes of our stories justifying and promoting sin, they are following God’s design and the way that he tells us we ought to live by what he tells us in his word.
Particularly, I have a desire to write about male and female characters who portray God’s design as in the roles God has made us for. That’s what I mean by “God’s original plan” verses the warped views of things that our world has given us.
I write High Fantasy, so it is a lot of Tolkienish in some ways, but I want to very clearly give a Biblical worldview, that’s what I meant pretty much. Because really, if I’m not writing for Christ and I’m writing for myself and my glory, then it’s not worth writing. In my opinion, it’s the stories of today that have normalized and ruined culture. When all the singers, books and movies popularize sin and an unbiblical worldview, doesn’t that have some effect on people and then the culture? I want to see books that are awesome, but have a Biblical worldview, and ultimately point to Christ and glorify God, even if it’s fantasy.
O.K. First I need to just go ahead and mention how much I love your name!!!! Is that a combination of Anne of Green Gables and LOTR??? I am a modern day Anne with the exception that I adore redheads…
Anyway… Fan art… I don’t have my sketchbook with me and I’m out of state right now… Plus with so many REAL artists on here, I’d blush to put it up…
Tek an ohta! Tek an cala!August 15, 2018 at 10:27 pm #43791
Oh good :D! I was ready to take you on (for reals)! XD I am so very glad we agree.
And yes, that makes so much sense, and falls in line with God’s word.
*is almost a bit disappointed a debate did not follow* Oh well… I guess it’s okay that we didn’t end in debate… Probably for the best. 🙂
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 15, 2018 at 10:55 pm #43793
I totally get that, there is definitely a level of respect in there, and I do appreciate that. Mainly what I hate is when a guy’s handshake feels like a girl’s handshake. Grosses me out… If you have ever had an ALERT guy (I’m hoping you know what that is, but if not that’s O.K., just think military meets boy scouts and focuses on father/son relationships and raising godly young men) shake your hand, you know he’s been to ALERT. When my brother (who is a part of ALERT) shakes another ALERT guy’s hand, you can just see the test of strength going on, it’s hilarious. However, when a guy shakes my hand I want him to not try to treat me like another guy, but not give me a girly handshake because it makes me want to crawl up the wall.
O.K. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with guys not being forward, but being friendly.
Ha ha!!! I’m glad that did NOT end in a debate… The Hobbit is one thing but theology is another… Don’t worry, I am one of those odd people that listen to Reformed people on Sermon Audio (James White is my favorite), so the sovereignty of God is not questioned in our household!!!
My latest chivalry story (I smirk when I think chivalrous because the situation has gone down in history as one of the funniest things…)
So at camp I walked across a brick pavement and burned my feet really bad. One of the camp counsellors, who was just one of the funniest people I’ve ever met, but also had a ton I respected about him, asked me if I needed something to help my feet as I was limping really bad. I said no, I used essential oils. He accused me of using the witch doctor cure, I “needed something made by a scientist” and didn’t listen to me about not needing help and went and got some sort of medicine for it and Duck Dynasty band-aids (that is the guy cure there). I really, really was impressed by how kind that was as the counsellors were already overworked and had been working at camp for six weeks.
The witch doctor cure has gone down in history, and my friend Essa and I are still rolling over and dying about how funny it was.
Oh I love that, a true gentleman is a gentleman to the lowest of women. I completely agree with that. I mean, I think that girls should act in a way that deserves respect, but I completely agree that a guy should never flex his character in the way he treats women in any situation, whether he is talking to a princess or a woman on the streets. Oh, and also, I do agree with you on not having perfect characters… When I say portray reality in my characters, I also mean their fallen natures. Because if my characters were perfect, that wouldn’t be real either. And if you’ve ever read Elsie Dinsmore books… The Millie Keith books were far better!! My characters definitely aren’t perfect, but I do have certain areas that I want them to uphold righteousness and character.
Tek an ohta! Tek an cala!August 15, 2018 at 11:06 pm #43794
I really enjoy debate, so if you don’t want anything debate, you’ll need to tell me… sometimes.
And I have not heard of ALERT, but I still get the idea, and totally get what you’re saying.
Wait… Are you into natural healing?! *gasps* THAT IS SO COOL! Me too! And oils are amazing!!! In the case of a bad burn, I would also want to use comfrey, and maybe aloe… honey… wheatgerm oil… And there are many things I would use for a burn. Not that I am giving advice or anything 😉
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 15, 2018 at 11:06 pm #43795
Just say’n what I would do.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 16, 2018 at 9:42 am #43808
Don’t worry!!! I’m totally fine with it, just so long as it’s friendly. 😉
I am so happy my brother is in ALERT, I have been thrilled with everything that they have done to pour into young men. I feel that it has been a wonderful, wonderful influence for him, he’s gotten to make some really solid friends through it.
Yes…. I am allergic to a lot of fake stuff like fragrance and dyes and all that. *Shudders*
SO! I have to figure out more natural stuff for pretty much anything and everything. I’ve learned the hard way on a few of those… Like too much cinnamon on your face BURNS!!!! Or when you are trying to put tea tree oil on your face, don’t grab the bottle that is the same COLOR as tea tree and just start putting it on undiluted. It might just be Thieves.
I try to kill colds naturally, which has been gross at times… Like killing myself with too much garlic in my soup.
I used lavender essential oil for the feet burns, which was really funny because I burned my feet AGAIN yesterday and had to use THE WITCH DOCTOR CURE!!!! So, so funny….
O.K. Well, I need to make an announcement… I’m going on hiatus for a little while, will be backsoon, signed Christopher Robin. 😉
Need to start working on school, so I need to take a break, but this has been a fun and lively conversation, thanks for all the insight, @wordsmith, it’s interesting to hear a guy’s perspective on it.
I bid you all a very fond farewell.
P.S. Enjoy the HEAT @wordsmith, knowing where you are, we’re on vacation right now and it feels like a Texas fall!!! August is a rough month…
Tek an ohta! Tek an cala!August 16, 2018 at 10:01 am #43809
Witch Doctor Cure? More like God’s healing touch. (imagine that…)
Yeah… Natural healing has been so amazing! Beyond imagination. I’ve used lavender more than once on my burns, and combined with a mix of other herbs it’s been so helpful (even alone it’s amazing).
I think the closest I’ve been to burning myself with an oil was with oregano. I had stepped on two nails (at the same time), and mom had me soak my foot in water with oregano oil. We tried to be careful about it, but it’s REALLY strong, so I may have been burned slightly by it.
I could go on and on talking about the amazing creation God gave us, and how I love using it in the healing process, but I think the idea is to let you go… so I’ll do that.
It’s been amazing getting to chat, and nice hearing the girl’s side of things. I don’t often get to have discussions on such a topic. Thank you!
I too must get to school work.
-Your Fellow Wordsmith-
P.S. Maybe someday more of us can meet where it’s not important for me to live under pen name 🙂
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 18, 2018 at 8:37 pm #43919Skye@skye
Back at it, haha! Apologies for my silence.
I definitely agree with you that this is a cultural thing – both from location and family.
See, I’m from the Midwest. And I haven’t spent really any time in the South, so I can’t say this for sure, but from the way you’re describing it I’d say we place the emphasis on hard work that you guys place on etiquette. And we don’t place the emphasis on etiquette. I guess it’s been carried over from our pioneer days – midwest girls (and ladies) do the work that needs to be done.
As for the potential of you intimidating girls, I completely understand what you’re talking about. And I respect your commitment to controlling the power that you have earned (congrats on your karate accomplishments by the way). That is a really good thing, the mark of a gentleman even.
That being said.
I’m female, 5’3″ an no longer growing, with no martial arts training other than surviving my brothers. Logic would tell you that I probably wouldn’t be too “dangerous”. But, I wrangle horses and try to ride cows (but I’m an awful jumper so I can’t get on), shoot, and play football. As I said before, I don’t wrestle as a sport because I don’t think it’s ladylike. But my dad and I have often wondered how far I could have went as a wrestler had I pursued it because I have the drive and so forth. I may not be able to do everything a guy can do, but I’ve been raised with the confidence that I can do everything a guy cannot do – and most of the stuff he can.
I’m not easily intimidated by someone’s size. In fact, I’d be far – far– less intimidated by a 6’1″ jacked dude who seemed sound of mind than a 5’3″. So, for some girls, having a gentleman in a suitor is a big deal, and I don’t blame them. There is great, great, great value in gentleman, and I would be disappointed if my brothers or potentially future sons turned into anything else. But, for me personally (again – personal opinion) I’m not currently looking for a guy who walks me home. Rather, I’m looking for a guy who I can’t physically break.
That being said, I will feel honored and appreciated when that man opens a door for me (especially car doors when on a date (off a date it’s not so big a deal if we’re just dating)…. that’s super sweet in my opinion) or offers his jacket when I’m cold. I’d feel awesome when he was a gentleman to someone else – because I know he picked me first.
So, to conclude. Like you said, there is value in both of our views on handshakes. It’s a cultural thing. Different expectations are held for different people in different locations and by different people.
It’s all about perspective.
As far as the rest of the conversation since my last post… I have no new chivalry stories, and haven’t really ever used essential oils. So, I don’t have much to bring to the table. So, Cheerio! Happy Writing! And have a good life.
And all that jazz.
And I realized that I use the word “so” far too much. So I’m sorry.
https://thingsabove32.wordpress.com/August 19, 2018 at 6:03 pm #43950
I think if we look back… The idea of having a gentleman that you couldn’t break was not something that had to be searched for. It was implied that because he was in the place of more physical strength it was his duty to be that gentleman.
So I think I agree with you.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comAugust 21, 2018 at 1:42 pm #44084K.M. Small@morreafirebird
@anne-of-lothlorien oooh, that’s really interesting! Super creative idea. 😀
"Beauty will save the world." - DostoevskyAugust 23, 2018 at 4:08 pm #44251Anne of Lothlorien@anne-of-lothlorien
I have absolutely no remembrance of who said what after reading through all y’all’s interesting replies, so I’m just going to say what I remember saying and you can take it if it applied to what you said. Or if it didn’t. Whichever. I think I remember some things so I may tag a person twice if I remember who said it specifically.
First off, this has become my favorite topic I have ever been part of and thank y’all for being a part of it.
Second, I am not from the south, even though I use y’all.
I have been to the south before, and I was impressed about how polite people were down there. I have no idea if it’s truly a thing, and I don’t clearly remember what Wordsmith said about it, but it just seems to me that people are so much more polite and considerate down there than up where I live in Indiana.
@wordsmith You’re six foot one?!?! So. Not. Fair. I’m five foot one and probably not going anywhere. I’ve never appreciated being short, but the upside is that all you six foot people have to do things for me cause I’m too small. 😀
I’m probably going to jumble my words and backtrack and say things that contradict because I have a fuzzy idea of what I’m trying to say here and it may not come out right.
Guys can intimidate girls, but I don’t think in the way really like, they walk into the room and we just are afraid of them and want to get out of their way. I mean, actually, yes, there are a couple dudes I’ve seen in places that look absolutely mean and I would never want to cross, but that’s not what I mean. I think guys can, if they are trying too much to be ‘manly’ and macho, which I know some guys do, they can come across as too harsh and brash and not gentlemanly, and girls do not appreciate that.
There is a boy I know, not naming, that in my opinion acts a little too rough, and not just around girls, but everyone. I hesitate to be too critical here, but I get the impression that he tries too much to act tough, and therefore takes it too far. I’ve played games with him before, and he goes over the top with slamming and throwing, and etc. He knows we girls don’t like being treated like glass that will break, but I think he takes his equal heavy treatment too far.
That said, what is your opinion of how a guy should act towards a girl in a game? I mean, we play four square at our church, and there are a few guys who will slam the ball way out of range for another guy, but will gentle it up and give it easy to us girls. And we girls frankly don’t like that, but only within the bounds of the game. We understand, stepping into this game, that we are going to play hard, be played hard against, and we don’t want to be ‘babied’. Not that a gentleman shouldn’t be gentlemanly, but I would like him to play his hardest with me within the confines of that game. I have been hit very hard with a basketball various times by young men in games, and sometimes they don’t apologize, but within that game I don’t mind if they don’t, because I understand that it’s part of the game. You play your hardest and you can get hurt. It does sound odd, that I would think them rude and impolite if they whacked me not playing a game and didn’t apologize, but didn’t care as long as they were playing a game, but that’s how I’ve always seen it.
I’m five foot one, can’t really look mean if I try, and am a general clutz. But I also shoot a 12 gauge pretty well, do well with wrestling with girlfriends occasionally, and can climb a tree faster than my older brother. I grew up between two brothers, so for a girl you’d probably say I’m pretty ‘tough’. I’m definitely not the make up applying phone using Instagram-able girl of today. But I don’t try to be a ‘manly girl’ or show up boys because I want to prove I’m not intimidated by them.
On the topic of dances…
I have always wanted to go to a dance. Always. Like, since I knew what dancing was. I know several people who would not dance with a guy they weren’t at least courting, but I would not have a problem IF it was at a dance like you have described – one where manners and ways of politeness and gentlemanly conduct that have unfortunately been forgotten are promoted. I would never go to a dance like they have nowadays at parties that are highly inappropriate and immoral. But a real dance would be amazing. I very much love seeing boys behaving like gentleman, and I have some friends who have been dancing, and I would love love love to go to one one day. Plus I think it’s useful in showing boys that girls are not fragile weird things never to be approached.
My friend recently worked at the State Fair and went to a youth conference before hand. I knew they were going to be taught Square Dancing and Folk Dances, so I asked her how it went. She said it was good, but her partner was a jerk. He talked rudely and pushed her none too gently when the dance require only a small push. And that made me a little mad. Boys, if you have in some way become a girls partner, for an evening, a dance, whatever, it is so rude and inconsiderate to spoil it for her by being a jerk. BE A GENTLEMAN!
I have no idea, honestly, about whether or not the guy or girl should initiate the handshake, just because I don’t usually shake guys hands. When I’m introduced to one, I extend my hand and they take it. I honestly have no idea if that is proper.
I’m actually going to go home and look in a book I have, some etiquette book my friend got me. She got it because it was old and cool looking and didn’t really expect me to read it. I want to look up some of the things we’ve been discussing and see what it says. I have no idea if it holds a Biblical standpoint or not.
@wordsmith @ericawordsmith I have to say, I know chivalry is still alive, it just seems to be drowning out in the wash of ungodly people, so it encourages me so much when I see your stories and convictions.
I’m only sixteen years old, and I have had some very unpleasant experiences with young men, total strangers, who thought it was okay to act inappropriate and wrong with a girl they’d never met. A guy rode by me on the sidewalk and offered me a ride home, grinning and gesturing very rudely. A guy who I am sure was drunk yelled very inappropriate things at me when I was walking past a restaurant. And these situations have frustrated me to no end because I hate seeing the lack of chivalry and even basic manners in people these days. The fact that a boy would look at a girl he’s never seen before, decide he ‘liked her’ because of her face or whatever, and deem it okay to be rude and inappropriate is horrible.
But this thread has encouraged me so much of the fact that chivalry still is out there.
@ericawordsmith I think you were the one that asked this? Yes, my name is a mashup of AoGG and LotR. I am very much like Anne and love the books to the point that one of my closest friends calls me ‘Anne’. Then in my alter personality, I live in Lothlorien, so I put them together for my internet name.
@wordsmith Yes, I’ve been hoping someday I can meet y’all. I plan on tailing Hope to a staff meeting one of these days if Josiah will let me. She and I go to the same church, so it’d be easily arranged. I think we should petition our great leaders to organize a conference for SE people!!! That’d be amazing!!!
@ericawordsmith – Yes, I have read the Millie Keith books!!! I started the Elsie Dinsmore books and was soooo bored that I stopped. Then my friend let me borrow the Millie Keith books and I read them through without realizing it was the same author, and I was shocked when I found out! I love the Millie Keith books. I own the first and really want to the rest of the collection. I have only read the updated version, not the original, but hopefully it’s close to the originals. LOVE THEM!!!
@wordsmith I can’t take normal medicine because I haven’t been able to learn how to swallow pills. But I also just don’t take medicine for things. I don’t know why, because sometimes I’m in pain, but I just don’t. I will mix the spice ginger into water if I get a migraine. Those are the only things severe enough to get me to take medicine. I have vision loss, hallucinations, and major pain, so I will take ginger water for that.
Um, random question, but do you have a suggestion of something natural for stomach cramps and aches?
Okay, so hopefully I can be back here Saturday night, but all my mom’s sisters and her parents and their families are coming for a birthday party this weekend, so I’ll be pretty busy. I don’t have internet normally, like in my house, so I might be able to com eon here while at my grandparents house on Saturday. That is the worst part of no internet at home. Not being able to be on here.
I'm short, I like words, and I love people.
No, I didn't draw my profile pic.August 23, 2018 at 5:14 pm #44268
Yes, here in the south I could divide the people into four-ish sections (very generally). There are people who go overboard on the gentleman part, and use it as a cover up, or in a showy way (teaching their children to be that way)… There are people who are true gentlemen and teach their children to be so. There are people who don’t know exactly what to do, but seem to understand that there is something to do. And there are people who are rude (as there always will be in a fallen world). I personally have come across all for of these groups. But even so, I can’t remember ever being treated ill because I was gentlemanly. When you get farther north, east, and west, I see a feminist view that doesn’t want the man to hold the door. I have not seen that here.
Second… Yes… I am six one. But that’s my job! It’s fare… Or at least ideally it’s fare. Because if the bigger men are doing their job, there is far less of a vulnerability in the smaller women. I know you were joking a little… But even so.
Thirdly… When I talk about guys intimidating girls I’m not talking about anything explicit. I’m talking about something that probably flies under the radar for most guys even… And this is where we might look at etiquette. When I walk into a room with a girl for one I work to make sure that there is at least another girl… hopefully more people. Why? Because I don’t want to put her in a position of feeling unsafe. If I am in a room with a girl (an elevator for instance), unless I am actively, I will let her be in the position where she can escape. Not because I expect that she will need to escape, but because if I as the bigger man have the door, she would have to go through me to escape. I don’t want to stand between a girl and safety.
So if a guy and a girl walk in a room together, and he is standing between her and the door he is setting up (even if he doesn’t mean to) a compromising situation. But if they are alone, he should not be between her and the exit. Now of course there are exceptions. If we are in a room that has no exit, and bad guys are coming I will stand between her and the door, so I can intercept the bad guys. But others wise, I will calculate where I stand, so as not be to intimidating.
Forthly… When I play a game with girls I will be more calculative with them (on how I play) than with boys. I’m not going to run into a girl like I would a boy (even within the rules). There is a difference. That doesn’t mean I’m treating them like weaklings, but I am treating them as women.
Fifthly… Dances in their proper format are amazing! And I hope you can go to them some day!
Sixthly… It makes me really mad to hear about you being treated that way. I (being a guy) have never had to deal with that kind of thing, but I would guess that it’s really scary, in which case tree climbing could be very helpful.
Seventhly… I understand not taking medicine, and that mix sounds amazing!
Eighthly… It would be so cool if there was an SE conference!
Ninthly… I cannot legally recommend anything… But in my experience I would look at two things for myself: A) Is my diet healthy. Because medicine cannot make up for a poor diet. B) If my diet is fine (and actually healthy) I would look at something to relax my muscles. I might use lavender directly on the skin… There might be some teas I would use, but I would want to research first. And again… I have not recommended anything 😉
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.com
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