fb

INTO A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY – The Last Jedi – Discussion & Analysis

Forums Fiction General Writing Discussions INTO A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY – The Last Jedi – Discussion & Analysis

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 26 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #72145
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    Hi all!

    (Would it be terribly presumptuous of me if I greeted instead with my initial option – “Greetings, ladies & gentlemen” 😉

    I recently (finally) watched Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi. Being a fan and a writer, I’m currently trying to analyze this film (while also recovering from all the twists and turns it took me through as a viewer). So I’m wondering if some of you can help me out – “as iron sharpens iron” right? 🙂 And perhaps we’d be able to kick off a discussion here that will be insightful, discerning, and enjoyable. 🙂 I’m really interested to see how this will go because it’s so fresh in my mind right now.

    I’ll start with some questions I’ve been thinking over. Please feel free to chip in with any others you have, as well as your thoughts on my questions!

    And don’t feel obligated to answer every one of these – pick one you like to answer for now and go with it. 🙂

    For all of you reading this who hate spoilers – be forewarned – SPOILERS ARE VERY LIKELY TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS THREAD.

     

    1) What do you think of this film story’s completeness – in terms of the plot and subplots, and especially the “big picture” of this episode’s place in the entire Star Wars saga (all eight episodes so far)?

     

    2) What do you think of this film’s artistic quality? I’m referring to the way the story is told – scene order/structure, etc. As well as the acting and script.

     

    3) What do you think of the charactersdevelopments of Rey, Ren, (I just have to say, is it weird that these two’s names are so similar? :P), Poe, Fin, & Leia; and introductions of the older Luke, Snoke, and Rose? [Sorry if I missed someone.]

     

    4) [If you dislike politics – feel free to skip this one. I’m one for discerning the politics (one may also include worldview) of any author/filmmaker’s work to see where they stand, what they may try to persuade the audience of, as well as how their beliefs/views may affect the story, and etc.]

    4.1 What worldview (especially in terms of values, standards) do you think the filmmakers are coming from?

    4.2 What political persuasions do you notice in this film? (Especially those that were not present – or perhaps just not as noticeable to me – in the original & the prequel trilogies that George Lucas were involved in).

    4.3 I’ve read some comments on this film expressing concern that the radical feminism depicted is rather “heavy-handed” – would you consider this an accurate assessment?

     

    5) Quick one here: Enjoy-ability meter – 1 to 10? (Taking account of personal taste, cast/acting, script/lines, plot twists, humor, expectations, etc.)

     

    6) What do you think are some untapped potential that this film failed to fulfill?

     

    7) What are some of your future hopes for this saga? (For you “predictors” out there, chime in on what you think this whole Rey-Ren thing is going… :P)

     

    That’s all my brain have come up for now – love to see what you all think! I will be posting up my responses later.

     

    I’m tagging some people I’ve written to before or I think have mentioned seeing TJL – apologies if I’ve made a mistake. And since I’m not super active in the general forum, many thanks if you can tag someone else along who may enjoy participating in this.


    @evelyn
    @j-a-penrose @taylorclogston @daeus-lamb @josiah @hope-ann @theinconceivable1 @introverted-elf @inkling-for-christ @sarah-inkdragon @ethryndal @eden-anderson  @anyone

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by PursueWisdom.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by PursueWisdom.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by PursueWisdom.

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72168
    Quinn O’Fallon
    @quinn-ofallon

    @pursuewisdom Ooh–unlike a lot of people, I liked TLJ, so I’d love to pick it apart and discuss it. I’ll just stick with the first question for now, though 😉

    TLJ was definitely a sprawling story, especially compared to The Force Awakens. I kinda liked that, how there were multiple threads happening at once. (Not as many as Infinity War though…) But it didn’t feel very cohesive. Rey’s thread and Finn’s/Rose’s thread kinda felt like two different stories in the same movie. And it frustrated me when Finn’s/Rose’s thread ended up having almost zero effect on the outcome at the end. Like, we don’t need a whole hour or so just for character development. It would have been so much fun if Rey’s actions and Finn’s/Rose’s actions affected each other more than they did…

    It definitely feels like a Star Wars film to me though. Desperately trying to save the universe, may or may not succeed… super cool.

    As for Rey and Ren, woah. First time I watched the movie, that one really threw me for a loop 🙂 What’s your opinion on the story’s completeness?

    #72169
    theinconceivable1
    @theinconceivable1

    @pursuewisdom: well, thanks for tagging me, but I think i lack sufficient knowledge of the star wars movies to have any valuable contribution XD. I’m sorry but the princess bride is basically the only movie I’m really passionate about! However, after quickly googling which movie VIII actually was (hehe, ya thats how little I know XD) I can remember my particular thoughts after watching said movie. SO, if you cair to hear my uneducated opinions, please tag me again and I’ll tell you what I have to say XD

    INTJ- trying to grow into real wisdom; James 3:17

    #72170
    Princess Foo
    @princess-foo

    @pursuewisdom Wow. You are ready to dig into this thing! I don’t have thoughts on most of your questions, but here are some of my thoughts.

    I didn’t think that the movie ever really drew attention to the fact that several key and powerful characters were female. There was no “Are you saying that because I am a girl?” or “You are just a girl, what do you know?”. I think that maybe some comments Rey’s actress made were about being a female role model, but I don’t really pay that much attention to that stuff. They felt like characters first, women second. I do think Rey was a bit of a Mary Sue, but I don’t think that had anything to do with her gender. *Shrugs* I don’t know if anyone else saw it differently.

    The movie was ascetically very nice.

    I didn’t like the Finn/Rose subplot. (Not the romantic one. I think I might ship them but idk.) They didn’t accomplish anything and in fact made things worse. Also, Purple Hair Lady had no reason to keep her plan a secret. It was a stupid thing to do. All they had to do was a small line about her suspecting a spy on the ship, and her plan makes a lot more sense.

    I really liked the chemistry between Rey and Ben. I support them getting together but I don’t see that happening after that ending.

    Also, I think that Ben is lying when he says Rey’s parents are nobodies. We don’t have a reason to believe he would/is telling the truth, and I don’t know why people think he is.

    The cake is a lie. acaylor.com

    #72174
    Taylor Clogston
    @taylorclogston

    @pursuewisdom (so sorry! I didn’t see you’d made this thread when I responded a bit ago =P )

    1) The Finn and Rose line was of course extraneous for the purpose of “everyone’s a bad guy!” Which I don’t think meshed with the “Rey could be eeevvviiiiiil and Luke is still an angsty boi” as well as Johnson hoped it would. I think Luke’s arc worked well enough (even if it could have been much, much better) and I think the Rey/Snoke/Kylo Ren line worked… fine. I didn’t feel the story was incomplete so much as purely wasted potential for the sake of subversion. I really like they idea of Rey being just some girl, but wish it had actually meant something. I hate that Snoke is just nobody. I hate that the Knights of Ren just stopped being a thing. I love that the Force is more mystical again, and adored the bit of Yoda we got. I loved the idea of the casino planet (felt very Star Wars RPG to me) and seem to be the only person in the world to think so =P I also love episodes two and three, so maybe my tastes aren’t the best.

    2) I felt this was the strongest aspect of the movie. The direction felt purposeful and… artistic, I guess? I loved the decision to give Force Ghost Luke his original lightsaber, and loved how you could tell from the moment he ignited it what was actually going on and how the fight would end. For some reason that emotionally hit me really hard.

     

    5) I’ll go with a six or seven. I had some huge problems with it, and whenever Poe or Kylo Ren or Luke or Rey weren’t on screen I was pretty bored (which makes me sad, because I really liked Finn in the last movie and felt he just wasn’t allowed to do much in this one), but whenever something visually great was on screen I loved seeing it, and the emotional bits with Luke and Yoda were great. I’d watch it again, but it’s not in my top three Star Wars movies. Granted, it’s not in my bottom three either =P

    7) I don’t feel comfortable making predictions. It all depends on who we have working on episode nine, I think, and Johnson seems bent on changing things if people predict too closely, anyway =P I at least feel confident it’s going to revolve around Rey and Kylo Ren having angsty internal force conflicts while big ships blast each other in the sky, and I doubt we’ll get terribly interesting new characters or huge universe-changing revelations.

    "...the one with whom he so sought to talk has already interceded for him." -The Master and Margarita

    #72251
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @quinn-ofallon

    Thanks for being the first to tackle my question! 😀

    “TLJ was definitely a sprawling story, especially compared to The Force Awakens. I kinda liked that, how there were multiple threads happening at once. (Not as many as Infinity War though…)”

    I completely agree with you here. For me, The Force Awakens didn’t have much of a story at all. Just some nostalgia connected to seeing Han and Leia again, and the introductions of Rey, Poe, Finn, and Ren/Ben. TLJ is better than TFA in this aspect for sure. I finished the film feeling that at least we are told a story in this one. 🙂

    “But it didn’t feel very cohesive. Rey’s thread and Finn’s/Rose’s thread kinda felt like two different stories in the same movie. And it frustrated me when Finn’s/Rose’s thread ended up having almost zero effect on the outcome at the end. Like, we don’t need a whole hour or so just for character development. “

    Yes, and yes again! (Are we getting the same brain-waves or something?) Finn/Rose subplot was pointless for me. The only thing I got out of it was the possible romance between the two. An epic story requires cohesiveness and the ability to have each and every scene/plotline contributing to the big picture. 🙂

     

    I didn’t ship Ren/Rey immediately after seeing The Force Awakens. Although I did think the scene where Rey fell into his arms and being carried to the ship and then later, the tense mask scene, being rather suspicious. But after seeing TLJ just now, I def. ship them. I don’t really want the ending of this saga to be Rey destroying/killing Ren/Ben… The ending of TJL, though, doesn’t really show this going anywhere, but then I thought the ending of TLJ being not all that great either. 😛

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 6 months ago by PursueWisdom.

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72254
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    1) What do you think of this film story’s completeness – in terms of the plot and subplots, and especially the “big picture” of this episode’s place in the entire Star Wars saga (all eight episodes so far)?

    I think TLJ’s story is much better than the previous Force Awakens. There’s actually more substance in this one. I have also identified a couple overarching themes that Johnson (tried) to place into this: disillusionment (and recovering from it) and pride. The past is a big focus as well, but I think it can tie closely with disillusionment. I find the attempt of tackling these two themes to be rather satisfying (though not perfectly compelling, unfortunately). Also I find these to be fitting themes to include in a Star Wars film.

    The subplots don’t all work well together. The Rey-Luke, Rey-Ren, Finn-Rose, and Poe being the four subplot lines that were rather separate and not complimentary altogether. The Rey-Luke and Rey-Ren were well done – I was very moved and impressed by the scene in which Luke finally revealed to truth about his failing Ben to Rey. (As a character, Luke developed very nicely in the entire saga. I was disappointed when he was killed off, since Rey obviously will not get any training from a living Luke anymore. I’m seeing that perhaps she’ll self-teach using the texts, or Luke as a ghost will give her some advice?)  I like the attention Poe is getting in this story, but Finn took a back seat and him and Rose’s plot had no contribution to the big picture in terms of plot. 😛

    Finally, the fact that Rey remains a rather Mary Sue character does not help TLJ – women are humans too. And I’m not sure why they had female leadership dominating the story – especially in a way that is not satisfying (General Leia really didn’t do much as a “general,” General Holdo did have a noble sacrificial ending but her refusing to explain her plan to Poe didn’t make much sense for a supposedly famous general).

     


    @quinn-ofallon

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72255
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @theinconceivable1

    Of course I’d love to hear what you have to say! 🙂 Really. Just any input would be wonderful to one or several of my questions above.

    Please, sir, I beseech you to speak.

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72259
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @princess-foo

    😀 Thank you for your thoughts! Yeah, I’m just trying to learn from this so my own stories won’t suffer to same causalities. 😛 Plus I thought it’ll be fun to get some Star Wars people together on this forum.

    I partially disagree with your first paragraph: I don’t wish to sound “extreme,” but I think either the filmmaker/s were too ignorant to make Rey a better character, or I think they’re trying to implant some political ideas. If they wish to make a female role model of Rey, then why would they not make her more like an actually girl? 😛 As a girl I don’t really see how I can look up to her (except adding to the hubris of females in general about “female empowerment” or “equality” or something of the sort which I regard as nonsense but I do realize that this is a mentality that can be instilled in women and communicated through stories). Completely agree with your characterization of Rey as a Mary Sue though. What do you think?

    I’m  completely on the same page with you about the Finn/Rose subplot being useless to the story and Rey/Ben being a very interesting “couple”. 🙂 I’m very interested in seeing how this Rey-Ren/Ben thing is headed in the finale.

    Ben might be lying but perhaps not aware if it. Rey seems to have not shown any indicating of denying him. I would like to propose as a possible explanation for this: if Rey’s parents are important people, perhaps they had to gave her to the “nobody” parents she (and Ben, because Ben read her mind, right?) think she had. Again, similar to when Luke was given away as a baby in Episode III.

    What do you think?

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72309
    theinconceivable1
    @theinconceivable1

    @pursuewisdom: uh… ok, sorry but I’m going to recall that offer to comment XD (can I do that?!?) Sorry! its just life is getitng busy (were moving back to the states) and I don’t think stating my uneducated opinion is quite worth your or my time XD So ya, Thanks but, hehe, bye!

    INTJ- trying to grow into real wisdom; James 3:17

    #72389
    Introverted Elf
    @introverted-elf

    @pursuewisdom

    Okay, I just really want to say that I, for one, love the whole Kylo-Rey show thing going on in The Last Jedi.  I just love all of those scenes(well, except for that one part where Ben was missing a shirt…) when it’s just the two of them connected by the Force.  I think they were both developed really well in this movie where Ben is like the “strong one in the Dark Side” and Rey is the “strong one in the Light Side”, that sort of thing.  And then they come together and…yeah, it’s amazing.  My favorite scene is definitely when they’re fighting together against the Praetorian Guards.  So cool. 😀

    Tolkien/Batson book lover, anime fangirl, TLoZ, SW, SC fan, Stirlingite, Owl Citizen, Team Grimmie \|/

    #72419
    Princess Foo
    @princess-foo

    @pursuewisdom I used to not think Rey was a Mary Sue, until I saw this video explaining  it. Now I do.

    The cake is a lie. acaylor.com

    #72435
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @princess-foo

    🙂 I just watched that video the other day! So glad you brought it up! I have not seen Aliens but I’ve heard of it… yet when I compare Rey with a few other female heroines/main characters like Wonder Woman, or even Katniss Everdeen, Rey pales in comparison.

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72466
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @theinconceivable1

    No prob! Feel free to pop back in here whenever/if you have time. 🙂

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

    #72470
    PursueWisdom
    @pursuewisdom

    @introverted-elf

    Hmm… I agree with most of your thoughts here. Unfortunately, though, for me Rey is the most terribly constructed main character in the sequel trilogy. I couldn’t relate to her and found her to be interesting only when she and Ren are together.

    But yes, I’m looking forward to see how this will go down with the two. I hope they don’t kill off Ren, because if they do, I’ll have no interest in Rey anymore (at least, if her character stays so Mary Sue).

    What do you think of this, as well as some main themes this film included?

    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." ~Th.Jefferson

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 26 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Pin It on Pinterest