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  • #137415
    Joy C. Woodbury
    @joy-caroline

    @rose-colored-fancy

    Incredibly weird is the only way to describe it XD Several things I have either said or thought while translating myths “He turned her into a what?” “I mean, I guess turning into a tree is one way to handle the situation.” “Wow, that’s gory.” “Did we really need the descriptions of every single dog? Really?” *While reading Icarus* “Splash, I guess.”

    XD Mythology is so weird. Honestly, I can’t get over how weird it is. 😂😂

     And cows only sleep twenty minutes a day, and calves are way stronger than you think they are and they try to knock the bucket out of your hands and they try to suck your fingers if they’re little enough which is both adorable and disgusting XD

    Calves are cute, but yeah, they can get vicious!

    Oh, you have a blog? That’s awesome! What’s the URL? I’d love to read it if that’s okay!

    Of course! You can find it here: Discipleship With Joy

    Wow, Javert sounds amazing! That’s so complex and interesting!

    I know! I’ve never met any villain in literature quite like him. His inner turmoil when his lie is revealed to him in plain sight is simply chilling. Valjean gives him undeniable evidence that redemption is a real thing when he saves Javert’s life at the barricades. He has the perfect opportunity to execute Javert and put an end to the man who has persecuted him for years, but instead he sets Javert free. The inspector literally turns around and shouts, “You irritate me. Kill me instead.” But Valjean insists on sparing him, and Javert finds himself grappling with his duty to the law and his hesitation to turn in the man who saved his life. Since he can’t face the fact he was believing a lie all along, he throws himself into the Seine. It’s such a chilling scene.

    I think… Conner from the False Prince series. He was a spectacular villain because he was so complicated. He nearly had me convinced that he was right a couple times.

    I think most villains like Conner are hungry for power, not interested in what’s good for the people. That’s usually how it is with antagonists who seem like they want to help everyone out, but turns out that’s just a façade in order to gain everything for themselves.

    Oh, another one is Prince Viridian from Letter For the King and Secrets of the Wild Wood. (Not the Netflix series, the books! They messed those books up again!) He was awesome because he… kinda seemed right. That was a spectacular use of foils. Man, I love those books!

    I’ll have to check those out! I haven’t seen the Netflix series either, but I can imagine what you’re talking about. I get so mad when TV series or movies ruin amazing books. XD

    Oh! I just thought of another villain I find super interesting – Archdeacon Dom Claude Frollo from Victor Hugo’s The Hunchback of Notre Dame. (Not Claude Frollo from the Disney animation, though, lol. His character in the animation is completely different from his character in the book.)

    Claude Frollo is such a compelling villain because he actually starts off as being extremely kind, selfless, and compassionate. His parents die from the plague when he is a young man, leaving a baby brother, Jehan. Claude adopts Jehan, loves him deeply, and tries to raise him to become a godly and studious man. A few years later, he comes across a deformed child who has been abandoned (this is the hunchback). The others in the crowd call the child horrible names and say that he deserves to die. But Claude has compassion on the child and adopts him because he doesn’t want him to be abandoned. He calls him Quasimodo and raises him as his own.

    But both Jehan and Quasimodo end up being disappointments. Jehan grows up to be reckless and cavalier and only comes to see Claude when he wants money. Quasimodo goes deaf and is unable to learn. His bitter disappointment in his two adopted children causes Claude to become obsessed with certain studies and eventually turn to witchcraft as a result. He becomes a sorcerer and a horrible person. He becomes obsessed with a gypsy girl, Esmeralda, and will stop at nothing to get her for himself, turning to murder and causing her execution at the end of the book.

    What’s interesting is that Quasimodo actually really loves his adoptive father throughout the novel because Claude is the only one to show kindness to him. But he’s the one who throws Claude off the tower of Notre Dame at the end.

    It’s just really interesting to see how a person can start off so sensitive and even loving, and then descend into utter madness and just horrific and cruel acts.

    In the rain the pavement shines like silver
    All the lights are misty in the river

    #137416
    Joy C. Woodbury
    @joy-caroline

    @noah-cochran

    Jump in anytime! 🙂

    In the rain the pavement shines like silver
    All the lights are misty in the river

    #139419
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @joy-caroline

    Of course! You can find it here: Discipleship With Joy

    I checked it out, I love it! I’ll totally be following you! I love your website design, it’s really cool! I took the quiz, and apparently, I’m Paul! Also, I started making a quiz for my characters via that website, which is really fun XD

    I know! I’ve never met any villain in literature quite like him. His inner turmoil when his lie is revealed to him in plain sight is simply chilling.

    Wowww, that sounds so cool!

    I think most villains like Conner are hungry for power, not interested in what’s good for the people. That’s usually how it is with antagonists who seem like they want to help everyone out, but turns out that’s just a façade in order to gain everything for themselves.

    The cool thing is that we’ll never know! There was a short story from his POV and I still don’t know! It made him a lot more interesting, though I do think you might be right 🙂

    I’ll have to check those out! I haven’t seen the Netflix series either, but I can imagine what you’re talking about. I get so mad when TV series or movies ruin amazing books. XD

    Ugh, YES! I haven’t seen the series, but I saw a few clips and read about it. They completely messed it up in a hundred ways and lost the entire essence of the story. They tried to make it more modern and grittier, which kinda defeated the purpose?

    It was written in the 60’s so it’s kinda ‘old-fashioned’ (which I like, despite the fact that I’d appreciate more female characters.) and they tried to pull in politics and social issues, which totally didn’t work.

    And a large aspect was that the MC, Tiuri, had a lot to lose. He and his family were one of the greatest chivalric families and he kind of labors under the weight and knows that he’s going to lose all of it doing what’s right and struggles with loneliness and discouragement underway. And they threw all of that out of the window, added Strong Female Characters (TM) Power of Friendship (TM) and Underdog Power (TM). And… good grief, I’m all for female characters, but it’s grossly historically inaccurate and unrealistic to have female knights! It just doesn’t work! It defeated the entire purpose and UGHH!

    And a large part of the book was about “The world is inherently good and we need to protect it” so making it darker and grittier and turning all the good characters into traitors and morally gray characters defeats the entire point!!

    I mean, the book was even specifically world-built to be light and beautiful! It’s one of those books that I’d 100% live in. It’s so beautiful and amazing and you’re just rooting for it to be saved and I just want to go there! And the few clips from the series I’ve seen everything is gray and dark and dead. 

    Just… ughughugh. It makes me so mad because the books were glorious! I really recommend them, they were some of the first fantasy books I read and they’re still special 🙂 They were originally in Dutch (The Dutch version is slightly better, especially the second book) but the translation is really good too!

    It’s just really interesting to see how a person can start off so sensitive and even loving, and then descend into utter madness and just horrific and cruel acts.

    Wow, that sounds so interesting! That sounds really cool! It’s such an interesting character arc!

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #140490
    Joy C. Woodbury
    @joy-caroline

    @rose-colored-fancy

    I checked it out, I love it! I’ll totally be following you! I love your website design, it’s really cool! I took the quiz, and apparently, I’m Paul! Also, I started making a quiz for my characters via that website, which is really fun XD

    Thanks for the follow! And thanks for taking the quiz! I was Paul too the first time I took it, but I took it again the other day just for fun, and that time I got Temira, lol. So I guess a bit of both? XD

    That website is a ton of fun to make quizzes for your WIP!!

    And a large aspect was that the MC, Tiuri, had a lot to lose. He and his family were one of the greatest chivalric families and he kind of labors under the weight and knows that he’s going to lose all of it doing what’s right and struggles with loneliness and discouragement underway. And they threw all of that out of the window, added Strong Female Characters (TM) Power of Friendship (TM) and Underdog Power (TM). And… good grief, I’m all for female characters, but it’s grossly historically inaccurate and unrealistic to have female knights! It just doesn’t work! It defeated the entire purpose and UGHH!

    And a large part of the book was about “The world is inherently good and we need to protect it” so making it darker and grittier and turning all the good characters into traitors and morally gray characters defeats the entire point!!

    Oh, goodness. It sounds like there are a LOT of things the series messed up!

    I’m with you – I love female characters in unique roles, but a storyteller’s got to make it work. There has to be a plausible reason the Strong Female Character is in her role and why she’s strong – and it can’t be just because she’s a knight. (Sorry if that made absolutely no sense. XD)

    For the life of me I can’t figure out how a theme of inherent goodness can work with a bunch of good-for-nothing characters. Ughs.

    I mean, the book was even specifically world-built to be light and beautiful! It’s one of those books that I’d 100% live in. It’s so beautiful and amazing and you’re just rooting for it to be saved and I just want to go there! And the few clips from the series I’ve seen everything is gray and dark and dead.

    Just… ughughugh. It makes me so mad because the books were glorious! I really recommend them, they were some of the first fantasy books I read and they’re still special 🙂 They were originally in Dutch (The Dutch version is slightly better, especially the second book) but the translation is really good too!

    That really sucks that they made such a wreck of a book series you love. I know that feeling all too well!

    I’ll look into the books and add them to my never-ending TBR. 😉 Thanks for the recommendation!

    Wow, that sounds so interesting! That sounds really cool! It’s such an interesting character arc!

    It is, it is. I’m very much drawn to the villains who have a good and hopeful start, but end up descending into insanity. Insanity, to me, is like a living death sentence and it’s so sad! It’s pretty tragic to see the gradual downfall. I think Claude Frollo is a really tragic character. Yes, he was horribly evil and did terrible things – that can’t be denied – but what makes is sad is that I always think, when reading the part of his love for his younger brother and his compassion and kindness toward Quasimodo, “Wow, he really did have potential to be a good person.” It’s such an interesting arc, like you said!

    In the rain the pavement shines like silver
    All the lights are misty in the river

    #142161
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @joy-caroline

    Thanks for the follow! And thanks for taking the quiz! I was Paul too the first time I took it, but I took it again the other day just for fun, and that time I got Temira, lol. So I guess a bit of both? XD

    That website is a ton of fun to make quizzes for your WIP!!

    I had the same thing, I made a quiz for my characters and got different answers each time! Well, a bit of both is good! 🙂

    Yes, it’s really fun!!

    Oh, goodness. It sounds like there are a LOT of things the series messed up!

    I’m with you – I love female characters in unique roles, but a storyteller’s got to make it work. There has to be a plausible reason the Strong Female Character is in her role and why she’s strong – and it can’t be just because she’s a knight. (Sorry if that made absolutely no sense. XD)

    For the life of me I can’t figure out how a theme of inherent goodness can work with a bunch of good-for-nothing characters. Ughs.

    Exactly! I totally get what you mean! Actually, I much preferred the female characters in the book, (especially the second one) because they were actually doing stuff that male characters couldn’t and adding depth to the story! I must admit, the female characters were the tiniest bit shallow in the first book, they just didn’t get enough screentime. Still, I prefer it!

    And yes! Consistency is key! If half the army is women (Have actually read that) then you need a plausible explanation as to why they deviated from the cultural norm. (Which was established to be all-male armies.) Soo… you do need to think about why that works.

    I have nothing against sword-swinging warrior ladies in fantasy. (Actually, it’s one of my all-time favorite tropes, as long as it doesn’t stray too far into Not Like Other Girls territory) But I also really enjoy the female characters who don’t like the spotlight, or who don’t know how to handle weapons and have no desire to. They’re just as cool!

    I actually recently added a character to my first book and I really, really like her. Her name is Nebiah, she’s Gavril’s love interest, and Liorah’s opposite in most ways. She’s gentle, girly, quite reserved, not particularly strong-willed or intimidating, and has never held a sword in her life.

    Now, that’s the perfect setup to use Liorah and Nebiah as foils for each other and make some conflict there, but I decided not to. There’s already plenty of conflict, and they can be foils while they’re friends. Honestly, I’m so happy I made that choice. It makes me so happy to see Liorah and Nebiah (who is basically the representation of “Other girls”) getting along and supporting each other and being awesome together.

    That really sucks that they made such a wreck of a book series you love. I know that feeling all too well!

    I’ll look into the books and add them to my never-ending TBR.   Thanks for the recommendation!

    Exactly! It’s such a pain!

    Please do! They’re basically legendary in the Netherlands but vastly underrated outside of it! I’m sure you’ll like them! 🙂

    It is, it is. I’m very much drawn to the villains who have a good and hopeful start, but end up descending into insanity. Insanity, to me, is like a living death sentence and it’s so sad! It’s pretty tragic to see the gradual downfall. I think Claude Frollo is a really tragic character. Yes, he was horribly evil and did terrible things – that can’t be denied – but what makes is sad is that I always think, when reading the part of his love for his younger brother and his compassion and kindness toward Quasimodo, “Wow, he really did have potential to be a good person.” It’s such an interesting arc, like you said!

    Exactly! Villains with the potential to be good are the most interesting! Actually, most of my villains fall into that category XD I was writing a piece about the main villain just a few days ago and it was so weird because the POV character couldn’t quite decide whether she liked him or not. He was kinda intimidating, but not outright pure evil, because the POV character wasn’t a direct enemy of his. I thought it was kinda interesting!

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

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