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Character Art Exchange

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  • #127002
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

     

     That would be a great story to work! I know I’ve been told before if I want a good job/college credit in the future I shouldn’t mention I’m Catholic and I know plenty of family members who’ve had trouble because they’re openly Catholic/Christian/homeschooled, so I mean it’s definitely a theme very relevant to today.

    Yeah, I have to agree. In general, I think people will always try to revert back to us/them.  I know I’ve faced it, and I think most people, especially Christians, have, at some point or another.

    The MC would probably have to be a fairly well-rounded character to avoid becoming an underdog stereotype, and probably want to be wary of it being applied to current immigration and black lives matter politics or just confront that one head on cos that political atmosphere is just riveted stereotypes on either side.

    Yeah, I totally see what you mean. I decided to make my MC white, just because I don’t want it to be connected to Black Lives Matter. That isn’t my story to tell, so I’ll leave that to others. And yeah, I’m kinda scared of writing about something so politically loaded. But then again, I’m not planning to publish it. XD

    Yeah most people seem to just like the crazier characters or characters with attitudes like most people like weird conversations as opposed to ‘polite conversations’. I guess interesting is more interesting than important is important especially in entertainment.

    I noticed that too! Like, you can’t make your villain funny in any way, because people will always like him. I’m not kidding, it happens all the time. He can be however evil he likes, but people will like him.

     Format; it is not in comic format yet still in scripting process, on which subject, do you wanna critique in script format or in the rough sketch which’ll give more of the accompanying visual with the dialogue (both of each are a new medium for me)?

    Hmmm… I have zero experience with either. I don’t read many comics either, so I can’t give you too much input on that part. I’ll do my best with either!

    And genre, it’s…*thought this was a very straightforward question until trying to answer it lol*, it’s…probably somewhere in science-fantasy; it has modernized fantasy creatures like vampires and werewolves and all that is normal but the story relies on technology more than magic but it’s reminiscent of Prohibition ascetic and historical politics (which is rusted-knight’s area of expertise so I know the tech is historically and tactically efficient). Soo historic cyber-punk with action/adventure/espionage?

    That sounds really cool! I just wanted to mention I actually don’t read books with magic. I do like Sci-fi, though! And the era sounds really cool!

    My book is kind of high-fantasy-ish but without magic. It does have a lot of politics though, XD

    I’ve never actually pinned down a clear definition for it what’s contemporary in the writing genre?

    Basically, anything that isn’t historical or doesn’t fit in any of the other categories XD

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #127125
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    or just confront that one head on cos that political atmosphere is just riveted stereotypes on either side.

    Oh, I actually remembered that I have an opinion on this too XD

    A big issue I’ve found in books where they tackled subjects like that is that they’re written from the wrong POV, and they’re treating the character as though a part of their identity is a flaw.

    Let me explain! (I haven’t actually read that many books on this, they annoy the heck out of me when they’re done wrong. I’ve mostly read middle-grade books about this, so that might actually be part of the problem)

    I’ve found it pretty rare that the main character (or POV character) is the “out-of-norm” character. Usually, the main character is pretty “relatable” and ordinary. (More often than not, boring.) And it’s treated as a huge show of ‘good character’ when the MC treats the “out-of-norm” character as they should.

    I get that this completely comes down to ‘write what you know’ and that’s totally fine, but that doesn’t mean an “out-of-norm” character can be used as a plot point to demonstrate how good the MC is. It’s usually that the MC is the only person who sides with them, and it might be written in a kind of patronizing way, as though the MC is simply tolerating the character from the goodness of their heart.

    Hmm, I’m actually noticing this applies to other areas. I’ve noticed similar things in neurodivergent (Autistic/ADHD/anything like that) and disabled characters.

    Now, I’m going to drag an example in. John Flanagan’s “Brotherband, the Outsiders” is actually a really good example. Now, don’t get me wrong, I adore this book! I love it deeply, and I actually love how he added disabled characters (Ingvar was extremely shortsighted, basically legally blind) and for once, the main character was also out of the ordinary. Hal, the MC,’s mother was from a different country, and he was kind of regarded with distrust as ‘not one of us.’ He actually did a very decent job of making the characters kind of diverse in that aspect at least. (There was one single, solitary “sTrONg FeMAle ChaRActeR”, but that’s a rant for another day.)

    What really annoyed me was how the characters treated Ingvar. Ingvar was one of my favorite characters, but I constantly felt sorry for him because it felt as though the other characters (and even the author) were talking down on him. Every time he said something it was all like “Yes Ingvar. That’s very clever of you, Ingvar.” And the author observed at least twice that Ingvar was blind, not stupid. Like… obviously!!

    Thank goodness, this actually entirely went away during the second book. Ingvar was my favorite character in that book, and it felt as though the other characters were finally accepting, not just tolerating him. He was an active, irreplaceable member of the team.

    The other part that bugs me is when authors try to ‘fix’ the characters so they become ‘normal’ (Aka. they take away all defining traits.) Even worse, when becoming normal and rejecting parts of themselves doubles as a cheap character arc. (Looking at you, Hal.)

    Hal spent his entire first book trying to prove that he was in fact, a ‘true Skandian.’ Now, I would have enjoyed seeing Hal just accept that he was different and that there’s nothing wrong with that. Instead, he ‘proved himself’ and comfortably threw away everything that made him different. It was kind of disappointing.

    For example, once or twice, other characters observed stuff like “Yes, he’s really a Skandian after all,” whenever he did something right. What bugged me is that he took it as a compliment, instead of telling them that “No, I’m not a full Skandian, and I can do this too.” If people only accept you while you’re living up to their imagined standards, then they aren’t accepting you at all.

    Now there were some good parts in Hal’s character arc too! There was this one scene where another character shoves him into a stereotype and he gets really annoyed and he’s thinking how much he hates it when someone stereotypes him. That was actually a really good scene. I could totally relate XD

    Okay, I’ll get off my soapbox now. If you read that entire thing, I’m impressed XD

    To summarize: Differences aren’t flaws.

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #128024
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Yeah, I have to agree. In general, I think people will always try to revert back to us/them.  I know I’ve faced it, and I think most people, especially Christians, have, at some point or another.

    Ikr! And that us/them syndrome just hits everything nowadays! Like teens vs adults, boys vs girls every aspect of personality vs every opposing aspect etc etc etc.

    Yeah, I totally see what you mean. I decided to make my MC white, just because I don’t want it to be connected to Black Lives Matter. That isn’t my story to tell, so I’ll leave that to others. And yeah, I’m kinda scared of writing about something so politically loaded. But then again, I’m not planning to publish it. XD

    So lol I can’t avoid controversy to save my soul like I be like ‘I’m just gonna write this thing’ and ‘oh look, I’m writing about a plague that’s rumored to be a terror-weapon, when did that get there (answer; 2020)’ or ‘wow these internal politics here look a lot like…’ So I just don’t care whether that happens or not cos I argue politics all the time and research *niche whatever* as soon as I start arguing about/noticing it.
    You’re not gonna publish it?

    I noticed that too! Like, you can’t make your villain funny in any way, because people will always like him. I’m not kidding, it happens all the time. He can be however evil he likes, but people will like him.

    YES!! Exactly!!! Like I’m like thru a movie ‘yyyyyy u like this guy?’ ‘He’s really interesting (=funny)’ ‘but he did all these *horrible things* and man that’s funny all is forgiven.’
    So now I’m gonna use that to make this villain likable but also have him irreparably hurt a character everyone has to love which is the big rule of hate-able so that they gotta hate him except he’s so charming. So I’m trying to write a love/hate villain aaaand I may have been a little ambitious there…results still pending XD.

    That sounds really cool! I just wanted to mention I actually don’t read books with magic. I do like Sci-fi, though! And the era sounds really cool! My book is kind of high-fantasy-ish but without magic. It does have a lot of politics though, XD

    You don’t read books with magic? Is it because real magic is bad or just most magic is a turn off for you?
    Ooh I love political intrigue! I know I’ve heard what high-fantasy was but I can’t remember exactly what…XD

    Basically, anything that isn’t historical or doesn’t fit in any of the other categories XD

    Oh! Thanks!

    I’ve found it pretty rare that the main character (or POV character) is the “out-of-norm” character. Usually, the main character is pretty “relatable” and ordinary. (More often than not, boring.) And it’s treated as a huge show of ‘good character’ when the MC treats the “out-of-norm” character as they should.

    Grrr yes that drives me crazy!!! (Especially since I probably would not quality as a ‘ordinary’ and ‘relatable’ character). It’s just so fake and obnoxious!

    What really annoyed me was how the characters treated Ingvar. Ingvar was one of my favorite characters, but I constantly felt sorry for him because it felt as though the other characters (and even the author) were talking down on him. Every time he said something it was all like “Yes Ingvar. That’s very clever of you, Ingvar.” And the author observed at least twice that Ingvar was blind, not stupid. Like… obviously!! Thank goodness, this actually entirely went away during the second book. Ingvar was my favorite character in that book, and it felt as though the other characters were finally accepting, not just tolerating him. He was an active, irreplaceable member of the team.

    I have no idea what that book is but yes more disabled/neurodivergent characters that are just treated like unique people. See, I’ve seen that before where the author is kinda awkward and overdoing it in the first book but then he hits stride later on and just let’s his story stand on its own. Or it’ll be like you had all these books great and then you tackled something new to add diversity and it’s like ‘ok now it feels construed; go slower and actually develop these interesting points otherwise this is insulting’

    For example, once or twice, other characters observed stuff like “Yes, he’s really a Skandian after all,” whenever he did something right. What bugged me is that he took it as a compliment, instead of telling them that “No, I’m not a full Skandian, and I can do this too.” If people only accept you while you’re living up to their imagined standards, then they aren’t accepting you at all.

    AAAAGGGHHHH!!!! YES!!!!!! COMPLETE CAPS IF YOU HAVE TO ‘PROVE YOURSELF’ TO THIS IMAGINED STANDARD THAT IS NOT ACCEPTANCE!!!!!!!
    That’s one of the things I loved so much about Cars 2, like Mater was just one of the most off-ball, weird, funny characters you could ever meet I loved him!!! And the whole Cars 2 movie like everyone thinks he’s a spy and he’s pretending to be stupid and he doesn’t change he’s completely himself and in the end like my favorite thing was Lightning saying ‘yes, this is Radiator Springs; you’re yourself at Radiator Springs be yourself here and if people don’t take you seriously then they need to change, not you.’ And that was just so so good cos it was handled realistically cos yea plenty of the character were patronizing or worried he was gonna embarrass them but in the end they accepted how different he was and that was so nice.

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #128029
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    So I just don’t care whether that happens or not cos I argue politics all the time and research *niche whatever* as soon as I start arguing about/noticing it.

    Oh, I totally get that! Whenever something catches my attention I’ll often plunge into a rabbit hole of research.

    You’re not gonna publish it?

    No, I’m not aiming to publish anything right now. I’m just writing because it’s fun and I want to improve. XD I don’t have time or ambition to publish anytime soon, though that can always change.

    So now I’m gonna use that to make this villain likable but also have him irreparably hurt a character everyone has to love which is the big rule of hate-able so that they gotta hate him except he’s so charming. So I’m trying to write a love/hate villain aaaand I may have been a little ambitious there…results still pending XD

    Oooh, that’s a cool idea! What I’ve so far figured out about making your villain hatable is that they can and should have good characteristics. And charming will totally work.

    One of the best villains I have ever read was Prince Viridian from “Secrets of the Wild Wood”. He was charming, handsome, an excellent leader, and so, so convincing. He had a perfect, waterproof argument of why he was doing what he was doing. He was the only villain that actually convinced me and the MC that he was doing the right thing. (Only for a few minutes, but still!)

    But, he was still very much a villain. He was evil, and he did awful things. He would burn down kingdoms to get what he wanted, to reach his perfect goal. Oh, I’m rambling, aren’t I? I can’t help waxing slightly poetical over that book, it was so good!

    I think the point of view you tell it from makes a big difference. You need at least one character with a strong moral compass, that sees everything in black and white, even to extremes. Characters like that can really uproot the excuses and justification with a simple “But you did X, and your goal doesn’t excuse that!” It’s almost impossible to counter that. You can even just have a character think this, and that’ll make your villain sufficiently hateable. Keep harping on that one thing they did. That usually works for me. 😉

    For my villains, I actually have way too many XD I have… *Mentally counts* Over two books, I have five main ones. And that’s not counting the antagonists.

    For villains, one thing that’s really stuck with me is ‘Hanlon’s razor’ (Weird name, I know XD) It states: “Never assume malice when sufficiently advanced ignorance will do as an explanation.” The first time I read that it kind of knocked the wind out of me since that’s really how it works. Ignorance causes more harm than malice, in general, and it’s far more common. Using that principle makes for really scary villains because you can see how that can happen. They seem human and sensible, and real. And they still do these horrible things and it’s terrifying.

    You don’t read books with magic? Is it because real magic is bad or just most magic is a turn off for you?

    Both, to some degree, but mostly the first 😉

    Ooh I love political intrigue! I know I’ve heard what high-fantasy was but I can’t remember exactly what…XD

    High fantasy is any fantasy that is set in a world different from our own. Low fantasy is when fantasy elements are integrated into an alternate earth. And yes, I love political intrigue too, but only when I can follow along and see what everyone is doing. When it becomes a bunch of people discussing stuff for chapters on end, it feels a lot like checking off plot holes.

    “Nope, they can’t do Y because X, so that leaves us only one option, which the author clearly intended anyway and I was just bringing all this up so the fans can’t accuse the author of not taking an easier way.”

    Grrr yes that drives me crazy!!! (Especially since I probably would not quality as a ‘ordinary’ and ‘relatable’ character). It’s just so fake and obnoxious!

    I totally agree! I don’t think I’ve ever related to a boring, ‘relatable’ character XD I don’t think anyone does since people are individuals.

    I have no idea what that book is but yes more disabled/neurodivergent characters that are just treated like unique people. See, I’ve seen that before where the author is kinda awkward and overdoing it in the first book but then he hits stride later on and just let’s his story stand on its own. Or it’ll be like you had all these books great and then you tackled something new to add diversity and it’s like ‘ok now it feels construed; go slower and actually develop these interesting points otherwise this is insulting’

    You nailed it! Couldn’t agree more!

    And that was just so so good cos it was handled realistically cos yea plenty of the character were patronizing or worried he was gonna embarrass them but in the end they accepted how different he was and that was so nice.

    Yes! I loved that movie, and they did that so well! Imagine what would have happened if the entire movie had been about Mater losing all his characteristic traits in the name of ‘character development’. *Shudders* That would have been beyond terrible!

    He was awesome just the way he was and if you think about it, nobody except Mater could have handled those situations. I love it when characters end up having to embrace the parts of themselves that they don’t like, or that are frowned upon by others. And when they use those traits to solve problems in ways nobody else could! *Happy sigh*

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #129816
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Oooh, that’s a cool idea! What I’ve so far figured out about making your villain hatable is that they can and should have good characteristics. And charming will totally work. One of the best villains I have ever read was Prince Viridian from “Secrets of the Wild Wood”. He was charming, handsome, an excellent leader, and so, so convincing. He had a perfect, waterproof argument of why he was doing what he was doing. He was the only villain that actually convinced me and the MC that he was doing the right thing. (Only for a few minutes, but still!) But, he was still very much a villain. He was evil, and he did awful things. He would burn down kingdoms to get what he wanted, to reach his perfect goal. Oh, I’m rambling, aren’t I? I can’t help waxing slightly poetical over that book, it was so good! I think the point of view you tell it from makes a big difference. You need at least one character with a strong moral compass, that sees everything in black and white, even to extremes. Characters like that can really uproot the excuses and justification with a simple “But you did X, and your goal doesn’t excuse that!” It’s almost impossible to counter that. You can even just have a character think this, and that’ll make your villain sufficiently hateable. Keep harping on that one thing they did. That usually works for me.

    Wow, that’s pretty awesome! I’ll have to look into that book, what was it about? And yes, POV is vital, I use a character with a very solid moral compass but he’s also really really empathetic so for the entire first half I’m hoping everyone’ll feel like it’s a redemption arc except the villain doesn’t change, instead he uses that character’s pity against him and–I am knocking very close to spoilers now XD. But yea, solid moral compass is a must even especially when looking at the ‘gray’ areas.

    For my villains, I actually have way too many XD I have… *Mentally counts* Over two books, I have five main ones. And that’s not counting the antagonists. For villains, one thing that’s really stuck with me is ‘Hanlon’s razor’ (Weird name, I know XD) It states: “Never assume malice when sufficiently advanced ignorance will do as an explanation.” The first time I read that it kind of knocked the wind out of me since that’s really how it works. Ignorance causes more harm than malice, in general, and it’s far more common. Using that principle makes for really scary villains because you can see how that can happen. They seem human and sensible, and real. And they still do these horrible things and it’s terrifying.

    Oh yeah! I’ve got *long pause…erhm* four…ish, right so most of the characters scale on the villain to antihero thing except the three main ones and even they it really questions circumstance vs actions vs duress. And definitely “sufficiently advanced ignorance” is really scary!!

    You don’t read books with magic? Is it because real magic is bad or just most magic is a turn off for you? Both, to some degree, but mostly the first

    Yea most books don’t handle magic well, it often leads to manipulation and power-plays making it seem ‘acceptable’ to curse people or talk to dead spirits and stuff yikes! But there’s some really good ones to that use ‘magic’ more like miracles for the good guys and makes a clear distinction between ‘magic’ magic and evil magic. And sometimes ‘magic’ is just ya’know not really magic so much as an element of high fantasy, just something that’s completely normal there like planes and cars are normal here, I don’t think that should be called magic usually but the name is bantered for convenience I guess.

    High fantasy is any fantasy that is set in a world different from our own. Low fantasy is when fantasy elements are integrated into an alternate earth. And yes, I love political intrigue too, but only when I can follow along and see what everyone is doing. When it becomes a bunch of people discussing stuff for chapters on end, it feels a lot like checking off plot holes. “Nope, they can’t do Y because X, so that leaves us only one option, which the author clearly intended anyway and I was just bringing all this up so the fans can’t accuse the author of not taking an easier way.”

    Bah! Phooey on those! There’s an art to turning information dumps into active scenes…a very…very…fine…art. *Is working on that XD*. But there’s so many like subplots that can be there just to demonstrate each character and the information applicably so nobody forgets it or in a way that everybody forgets it until you bring it up again to the audience’s/MC’s absolute horror. But yea, for a complex novel-series I’m beginning to learn that the first books or at least the first half must establish world-building in more-or-less relevant subplots. There absolutely must be a ‘normal’ established before the ‘real’ adventure begins.

    Yes! I loved that movie, and they did that so well! Imagine what would have happened if the entire movie had been about Mater losing all his characteristic traits in the name of ‘character development’. *Shudders* That would have been beyond terrible! He was awesome just the way he was and if you think about it, nobody except Mater could have handled those situations. I love it when characters end up having to embrace the parts of themselves that they don’t like, or that are frowned upon by others. And when they use those traits to solve problems in ways nobody else could! *Happy sigh*

    Exactly!!! Ya’know, most Catholics see saints as ‘extraordinary’ and ‘somber’ and like marble statues of goodness but if ya actually read their lives like I’ve never met a dull saint, every saint I’ve ever read about is sooo witty and quirky and just like crazy. I think one of the most deceptive tactics the devil uses is trying to make us think that loving God destroys individuality but in fact the people who love God the most are the most individual, authentic, wildly impractically creative people ever! So, I mean, people try and get us to conform but God likes Maters and Ehuds and Liorahs!

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #130283
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Wow, that’s pretty awesome! I’ll have to look into that book, what was it about?

    It’s the sequel to “The Letter for the King” by Tonke Dragt. (Not to be confused with the Netflix series. Netflix completely bungled it, as usual. I’m still not over that XD)

    It’s awesome and so underrated! It was extremely popular in the Netherlands (It was originally a Dutch book) but it’s kind of fading. It was written in the sixties, and it’s basically the Narnia of the Netherlands. (Yes, I just coined that. I’m a genius XD)

    It’s about a squire who gets asked to deliver a mysterious letter of great importance on the night before he is knighted. He finds the knight who had to deliver it, but the knight is dying and asks him to take the letter to the king of a neighboring country.

    The characters are awesome, and so is the villain, as I mentioned before, though he doesn’t feature much until the second book. The first book is very cool, but the second is even better! The characters and the worldbuilding gets a lot more depth in the second book.

    But yea, solid moral compass is a must even especially when looking at the ‘gray’ areas.

    Totally! I have a character, Sahar, who I use for that a lot. To her, there is no gray. It’s either right or wrong, no in-between. She has a strong moral compass, but this also makes her very judgmental at times, so it’s a flaw and a strength. That’s a really cool aspect of her personality.

    Bah! Phooey on those! There’s an art to turning information dumps into active scenes…a very…very…fine…art. *Is working on that XD*.

    Oooh, I have a trick for this! It’s from the Save the Cat method, it’s called the ‘pope in the pool’ technique. (I find the names of (screen)writing techniques hilarious XD Save the cat, the gorilla in a phone booth, a shard of glass, lampshading, honestly, it’s so weird, and I sound like an idiot when I use them to anyone who isn’t a writer XD)
    Anyway, it’s a trick for conveying important information without it getting boring. Instead of an infodump in an ordinary situation, use an extraordinary situation.

    Here’s an excerpt from the article that explains it pretty well:
    “In the example Blake shared, the writers solved this problem by providing the exposition in a unique way: by having the Pope’s advisers share the information with him while he is swimming. We’re used to seeing the Pope stand in his balcony, dressed in his traditional white robes. We’re not used to seeing him swimming laps, which is what makes the scene so intriguing. We’re focused on the image while being presented with the facts.”

    I think you mentioned you’ve seen Zootopia? That uses the technique in an excellent way! Remember the opening scene, where Judy and her classmates are in a play about how Zootopia is now united? That scene gave you a ton of background information and worldbuilding, but the scene itself was interesting, so you barely noticed.

    Here’s the article: https://savethecat.com/tips-and-tactics/swimming-with-the-pope-in-the-pool

    I’m using this technique in my rewrite. In the first version of the scene, Liorah was just talking to someone over tea. It wasn’t a bad scene, there was character building, but there was also a lot of exposition and they were essentially just sitting still. Now, I’ve changed it just by adding a chessboard to the equation. Having them play chess while they talk adds a bit of conflict (You know how competitive Liorah is XD) and it adds some movement to the scene.
    Hope that helped!

    But there are so many like subplots that can be there just to demonstrate each character and the information applicably so nobody forgets it or in a way that everybody forgets it until you bring it up again to the audience’s/MC’s absolute horror.

    Ooh, yes! I love doing that! *Evil chuckle*

    But yea, for a complex novel-series I’m beginning to learn that the first books or at least the first half must establish world-building in more-or-less relevant subplots. There absolutely must be a ‘normal’ established before the ‘real’ adventure begins.

    Definitely! But even just a chapter or two can establish a very good ‘normal.’

    I actually thought ‘The Hunger Games’ did this really well. The first chapter was Katniss’ normal world, and it wasn’t that long. You only saw about half her day, and it wasn’t an entirely ordinary day at that. But! In her narration, she described a lot of her everyday world, by comparing it to the slightly different reaping day. And, in the chapters following, she dropped in a lot of backstory and everyday life as flashbacks.

    It isn’t entirely traditional, but I sorta liked it! It really kept the story moving. I’m trying to use that technique, but I don’t know how well it’s working XD

    I think one of the most deceptive tactics the devil uses is trying to make us think that loving God destroys individuality but in fact the people who love God the most are the most individual, authentic, wildly impractically creative people ever! So, I mean, people try and get us to conform but God likes Maters and Ehuds and Liorahs!

    *Applause* Exactly! Precisely! Like, there’s so much stuff in the Bible that people overlook, mostly because it gets skimmed over. Like that one guy in Judges (Shamgar) who killed 600 philistines with an ox goad. Like?? What happened there?? He gets two sentences but I really want to know how he got in that position. XD Did you purposefully name Ehud after the judge, btw?

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #130599
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    It’s the sequel to “The Letter for the King” by Tonke Dragt. (Not to be confused with the Netflix series. Netflix completely bungled it, as usual. I’m still not over that XD) It’s awesome and so underrated! It was extremely popular in the Netherlands (It was originally a Dutch book) but it’s kind of fading. It was written in the sixties, and it’s basically the Narnia of the Netherlands. (Yes, I just coined that. I’m a genius XD) It’s about a squire who gets asked to deliver a mysterious letter of great importance on the night before he is knighted. He finds the knight who had to deliver it, but the knight is dying and asks him to take the letter to the king of a neighboring country. The characters are awesome, and so is the villain, as I mentioned before, though he doesn’t feature much until the second book. The first book is very cool, but the second is even better! The characters and the worldbuilding gets a lot more depth in the second book.

    (ahhh Netflix ruins every book it catches! 🙁 )
    It sounds really cool I’ll have to keep an eye out for it!
    I love it when the second book gets better! Yay!!!

    Totally! I have a character, Sahar, who I use for that a lot. To her, there is no gray. It’s either right or wrong, no in-between. She has a strong moral compass, but this also makes her very judgmental at times, so it’s a flaw and a strength. That’s a really cool aspect of her personality.

    See I love when a character’s greatest attribute is also their greatest weakness it seems so true to life ya’know. Sahar…she’s in Liorah’s series, right?

    Oooh, I have a trick for this! It’s from the Save the Cat method, it’s called the ‘pope in the pool’ technique. (I find the names of (screen)writing techniques hilarious XD Save the cat, the gorilla in a phone booth, a shard of glass, lampshading, honestly, it’s so weird, and I sound like an idiot when I use them to anyone who isn’t a writer XD) Anyway, it’s a trick for conveying important information without it getting boring. Instead of an infodump in an ordinary situation, use an extraordinary situation. Here’s an excerpt from the article that explains it pretty well: “In the example Blake shared, the writers solved this problem by providing the exposition in a unique way: by having the Pope’s advisers share the information with him while he is swimming. We’re used to seeing the Pope stand in his balcony, dressed in his traditional white robes. We’re not used to seeing him swimming laps, which is what makes the scene so intriguing. We’re focused on the image while being presented with the facts.” I think you mentioned you’ve seen Zootopia? That uses the technique in an excellent way! Remember the opening scene, where Judy and her classmates are in a play about how Zootopia is now united? That scene gave you a ton of background information and worldbuilding, but the scene itself was interesting, so you barely noticed.

    Ok so I needed that moderately irreverent never-to-be-forgotten mental image LOL. I’ll definitely never forget the technique though!
    Wow you remembered that? Thanks! Yeah, I remember that scene was really good stylistically especially with the climax that flawlessly reenacted that, lovely foreshadowing, no wait we were talking about info-dumping. It was good with that too! An excellent setting-up establishing her goals and the conflict and the history!

    I’m using this technique in my rewrite. In the first version of the scene, Liorah was just talking to someone over tea. It wasn’t a bad scene, there was character building, but there was also a lot of exposition and they were essentially just sitting still. Now, I’ve changed it just by adding a chessboard to the equation. Having them play chess while they talk adds a bit of conflict (You know how competitive Liorah is XD) and it adds some movement to the scene. Hope that helped!

    Lol yes, that would be perfect for reasonable conflict while establishing exposition with Liorah!

    Definitely! But even just a chapter or two can establish a very good ‘normal.’ I actually thought ‘The Hunger Games’ did this really well. The first chapter was Katniss’ normal world, and it wasn’t that long. You only saw about half her day, and it wasn’t an entirely ordinary day at that. But! In her narration, she described a lot of her everyday world, by comparing it to the slightly different reaping day. And, in the chapters following, she dropped in a lot of backstory and everyday life as flashbacks. It isn’t entirely traditional, but I sorta liked it! It really kept the story moving. I’m trying to use that technique, but I don’t know how well it’s working XD

    Ooh yeah, that sounds good! I’ve never actually read it but my sister and my best friend/cousin have. A lotta writing advice I’ve read has been fairly wary of flashbacks but I keep going back and forth on it in my WIP, especially where and how much. Right now I’m rolling with the ‘if I can show it without a flashback and maintain the ‘punch’ I go without a flashback’.

    *Applause* Exactly! Precisely! Like, there’s so much stuff in the Bible that people overlook, mostly because it gets skimmed over. Like that one guy in Judges (Shamgar) who killed 600 philistines with an ox goad. Like?? What happened there?? He gets two sentences but I really want to know how he got in that position. XD Did you purposefully name Ehud after the judge, btw?

    Ehud’s name, yes, it’s after the judge. My brother named all the characters except Rosario and her dad (whose name I haven’t decided on) because she wasn’t in the original cast and all. So everybody in the original cast @rusted-knight named Biblically (all the heroes, that is XD).
    Oh, the Biblical people can be hilarious sometimes! Like, two of my favorites, at the Transfiguration of Jesus Peter be like; Lord it…it’s good that we’re here…if you wish we’ll make three booths here, er, one for you one for Moses and one of Elijah “not knowing what he said” like it’s not written there but I can just hear him stammering through that and then, like, in John 21; 18-24 Peter’s just been told how he’s gonna die in the future and he immediately be like; what about John? Like what?! And Jesus be like; what’s it matter to you whether he stays with me or not. And then “the saying spread abroad that this disciple was not to die” LOL the craziest things happen in the Bible not just the miracles but like these people are just as sarcastic and crazy as we are!

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #130689
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    (ahhh Netflix ruins every book it catches! )
    It sounds really cool I’ll have to keep an eye out for it!
    I love it when the second book gets better! Yay!!!

    It’s on the Kindle store, but I have no idea if you can get it in bookstores. Maybe with the Netflix series coming out?

    Yes, they did an absolutely horrible job on it. I didn’t watch it, but one of my friends did. They introduced magic as plot-hole tape, added a bunch of relationships that weren’t there in the beginning, and introduced sooo many characters that weren’t necessary.

    Also, they tried to ‘modernize’ it by making Tiuri, the MC, a classic underdog. In the books, he’s a well-respected knight’s son, with a bright future and a guaranteed place as a knight, since he already passed all the tests. In the series, he’s an adopted immigrant, with nothing going for him and his adopted father had to rig the competition so he could get a chance as a knight.

    Considering that most of the internal conflict was about how much Tiuri was going to lose if he took up the quest, this was an exceptionally poor choice. And you do not want to know how much they messed up the casting! Series-Tiuri doesn’t have a single feature in common with book-Tiuri. Okay, I’ll shut up now, but I am still mad about it XD

    See I love when a character’s greatest attribute is also their greatest weakness it seems so true to life ya’know. Sahar…she’s in Liorah’s series, right?

    Yep! She’s one of Liorah’s friends. She’s one of my favorite characters! She had some very interesting developments as I kept writing her. In the beginning, she was just all cute and bubbly, but I discovered she can actually be far more ruthless than Liorah, just because she is so convinced of what is right and wrong.

    I’m going to drop her into the Character Castle right after I’m done with Liorah and Ferran. I’m going to drop her in with Acyn, who is her literal opposite. Like, every characteristic that Sahar has, he’s the opposite. They’re sooo much fun to write together! XD

    Ok so I needed that moderately irreverent never-to-be-forgotten mental image LOL. I’ll definitely never forget the technique though!

    LOL, it’s certainly very memorable XD

    Wow you remembered that? Thanks! Yeah, I remember that scene was really good stylistically especially with the climax that flawlessly reenacted that, lovely foreshadowing, no wait we were talking about info-dumping. It was good with that too! An excellent setting-up establishing her goals and the conflict and the history!

    IKR! That movie was awesome!

    Lol yes, that would be perfect for reasonable conflict while establishing exposition with Liorah!

    LOL, totally! It works pretty well since Liorah can’t stand losing. I’ve never before seen someone try to cheat with chess XD

    Ooh yeah, that sounds good! I’ve never actually read it but my sister and my best friend/cousin have. A lotta writing advice I’ve read has been fairly wary of flashbacks but I keep going back and forth on it in my WIP, especially where and how much. Right now I’m rolling with the ‘if I can show it without a flashback and maintain the ‘punch’ I go without a flashback’.

    That’s a good compromise! I try to use flashbacks as little as possible, only when it’s a really important scene, then I’ll actually write it as a flashback. I don’t know if it’s working though, I’ll see!

    Ehud’s name, yes, it’s after the judge. My brother named all the characters except Rosario and her dad (whose name I haven’t decided on) because she wasn’t in the original cast and all. So everybody in the original cast rusted-knight named Biblically (all the heroes, that is XD)

    That’s cool! I love the name, it’s memorable and really suits him! How do you usually go about choosing names? Do you use the meanings for symbolism, or just pick what sounds nice?

    LOL the craziest things happen in the Bible not just the miracles but like these people are just as sarcastic and crazy as we are!

    LOL, IKR! That one part after the golden calf has become a running joke in our house. “Those people of yours” “The people you led out of Egypt” XD Whenever someone starts blame-shifting, one of us is sure to say “The people you led out of Egypt!”

    Also, interesting point! The whole part about “If someone tells you to carry the burden for a mile, carry it for two” might be referring to the Romans. They had a law that a Roman soldier could tell one of the natives to carry his horse’s stuff for a mile but only a mile. If they carried it any more, the soldier could be punished for breaking the law. I thought that was kinda interesting!

     

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #131787
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    It’s on the Kindle store, but I have no idea if you can get it in bookstores. Maybe with the Netflix series coming out? Yes, they did an absolutely horrible job on it. I didn’t watch it, but one of my friends did. They introduced magic as plot-hole tape, added a bunch of relationships that weren’t there in the beginning, and introduced sooo many characters that weren’t necessary. Also, they tried to ‘modernize’ it by making Tiuri, the MC, a classic underdog. In the books, he’s a well-respected knight’s son, with a bright future and a guaranteed place as a knight, since he already passed all the tests. In the series, he’s an adopted immigrant, with nothing going for him and his adopted father had to rig the competition so he could get a chance as a knight. Considering that most of the internal conflict was about how much Tiuri was going to lose if he took up the quest, this was an exceptionally poor choice. And you do not want to know how much they messed up the casting! Series-Tiuri doesn’t have a single feature in common with book-Tiuri. Okay, I’ll shut up now, but I am still mad about it XD

    Ooh cool! Kindle books are usually real cheap.
    Uuggghhh ikr! When it a movie they always try to add/speed up relationships especially romances. Like how easy it is to murder a book by making it a movie!!! It’s like they rip out the aesthetic and the character names and then wrap it up with a completely irrelevant lack-of-story!!! Barbarians!

    I’m going to drop her into the Character Castle right after I’m done with Liorah and Ferran. I’m going to drop her in with Acyn, who is her literal opposite. Like, every characteristic that Sahar has, he’s the opposite. They’re sooo much fun to write together! XD

    Ooh that sounds fun I can’t wait to ‘meet’ her!!

    IKR! That movie was awesome!

    Stylistically beautiful although I have a couple qualms with some of their themes I feel like it was very lgbtq but it also webbed some really good themes about not judging people and addressing bullying and prejudice. What do you think about the lgbtq thing? You don’t have to answer that, it’s like a really hot political button.
    But the sloths were hysterical!

    LOL, totally! It works pretty well since Liorah can’t stand losing. I’ve never before seen someone try to cheat with chess XD

    Wow that is a rare level of creativity to cheat at chess lol.

    That’s cool! I love the name, it’s memorable and really suits him! How do you usually go about choosing names? Do you use the meanings for symbolism, or just pick what sounds nice?

    Ah that depends on the importance of the characters, the intensity of the themes, the alignment of the sun, what I had for breakfast 😛 . I have a list of different names with meanings and with my one WIP I always search for a name with a meaning that’s like a one-word epitome of this character’s key character-trait, his relevance to the plot/theme, his emotional arc, what’s he is at his core or what’s his core purpose, in a word I agonize endlessly for some stories.
    But that didn’t happen with Beyond All Borders @rusted-knight had ready-made names and the extra character cast that entered I gave names that were catchy, or just sounded right, or had the visual I wanted. Like Rosario sounds more ‘mature’ than Rosa and Rosario visually is red and related to roses (idk if that’s just me or if normal people visualize words or have strong accompanying and various ‘feels’ with words anyway…XD. Btw two is yellow, five is red and O is even because even is round!). So I wanted a roses and thorns aesthetic with Rosario so that’s how she got her name.
    Other times I just do contrast with really ironic names like I have a really abrasive pirate-girl called Charm (which, if you were wondering, is the opposite of what she is) and I had with character idea that’s never gotten screen-time who’s a really pessimistic, moody person called Sunny lol. But the names were quick, low-investment names that gave the character free-reign with little to no peer pressure from me to behave in any particular way which is how I got Ehud XD.

    LOL, IKR! That one part after the golden calf has become a running joke in our house. “Those people of yours” “The people you led out of Egypt” XD Whenever someone starts blame-shifting, one of us is sure to say “The people you led out of Egypt!” Also, interesting point! The whole part about “If someone tells you to carry the burden for a mile, carry it for two” might be referring to the Romans. They had a law that a Roman soldier could tell one of the natives to carry his horse’s stuff for a mile but only a mile. If they carried it any more, the soldier could be punished for breaking the law. I thought that was kinda interesting!

    Ohmygosh I knew I wasn’t the only one!!! Be like; ‘those people of yours’ Moses be like; ‘I thought we agreed to share them…’
    Yes I’d heard that about the Roman law too! I also heard like “turn the other cheek” was pretty tongue in cheek since you could only legally slap one cheek.

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #132121
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Uuggghhh ikr! When it a movie they always try to add/speed up relationships especially romances. Like how easy it is to murder a book by making it a movie!!! It’s like they rip out the aesthetic and the character names and then wrap it up with a completely irrelevant lack-of-story!!! Barbarians!

    Exactly! Barbarians! XD What I’ve seen of the series, they ripped out the aesthetic thoroughly. I loved the aesthetic of the original books. It’s medieval, but in a really light way, especially the first book. The overall tone is pretty light, actually. It does feel intentional though.

    One of the kingdoms, Unauwen, is described as one of the most beautiful places on earth, and the descriptions make me wish I lived there. Like, there’s a forest where flowers grow everywhere, and once a year, they have a festival where the people throw flowers into the lake until you can’t see the water. Like?? That’s so pretty!? The kingdom of Unauwen is easily one of my favorite settings in fantasy.

    Stylistically beautiful although I have a couple qualms with some of their themes I feel like it was very lgbtq but it also webbed some really good themes about not judging people and addressing bullying and prejudice. What do you think about the lgbtq thing? You don’t have to answer that, it’s like a really hot political button.
    But the sloths were hysterical!

    Oh, that’s interesting, it’s been a while since I watched it, but I don’t remember any of that. I did catch that a lot of it was about racial prejudice. (I actually thought they handled that well.)

    Ah that depends on the importance of the characters, the intensity of the themes, the alignment of the sun, what I had for breakfast. I have a list of different names with meanings and with my one WIP I always search for a name with a meaning that’s like a one-word epitome of this character’s key character-trait, his relevance to the plot/theme, his emotional arc, what’s he is at his core or what’s his core purpose, in a word I agonize endlessly for some stories.

    LOL, that’s a familiar feeling. XD That’s a really cool method! I have a list too, I collect as many names as I can. For the main characters, I’ll worry about meaning more than the sides.

    Like Rosario sounds more ‘mature’ than Rosa and Rosario visually is red and related to roses

    Ooh, that’s so cool! I totally think of roses whenever I hear Rosario, and it does sound a bit… tougher? than Rosa. I think it’s the sharp r’s and the o ending.

    (idk if that’s just me or if normal people visualize words or have strong accompanying and various ‘feels’ with words anyway…XD. Btw two is yellow, five is red and O is even because even is round!). So I wanted a roses and thorns aesthetic with Rosario so that’s how she got her name.

    That’s the coolest thing!! It actually has a name!! It’s called synesthesia. It’s extremely cool and I did a bunch of research on that because I think Sahar has it.

    Synesthesia is when two senses are connected, so people with it might see people as colors, or each number might have a color, or letters might have personalities, or they might taste something unrelated when they’re with a certain person. There are tons of variations and different degrees of it. Some people might only see one letter as a color, and all the others normally. It’s so cool! Always a fun research rabbit-hole to fall into XD

    I don’t have it, but I think it’s awesome, and I had fun researching it XD I do associate each of my characters with a color, but it changes around now and then XD Liorah is amber and indigo, Ferran is a sort of brick red, Gavril is bordeaux red, Acyn is beige and bright yellow, Faye is green, and Sahar is violet.

    Other times I just do contrast with really ironic names like I have a really abrasive pirate-girl called Charm (which, if you were wondering, is the opposite of what she is) and I had with character idea that’s never gotten screen-time who’s a really pessimistic, moody person called Sunny lol. But the names were quick, low-investment names that gave the character free-reign with little to no peer pressure from me to behave in any particular way which is how I got Ehud XD.

    That’s awesome! Charm sounds hilarious XD I picked my character names mostly on the basis of ‘does this sound similar to another name?’ and ‘Does it sound right?’ I do occasionally get cool symbolism in there though But only by accident. 

    For example, Liorah means ‘Light upon me’ so I end up using a lot of light symbolism. And Gavril’s fear of the dark somehow ties in too. For a long time, I strongly considered cutting that out, (And I still might) but I thought it was kind of cool.

    I do try to stick to similar languages for the names, though. Almost all the Lehabim (Liorah’s tribe) have Hebrew names. Not specifically biblical, though I have found some of the names among the genealogies accidentally. Like “Oh, neat, Liorah’s father helped restore Jerusalem’s wall.”

    But the biggest issue is that a lot of those names end the same way! Like, feminine names are often -ah endings and male are -el endings (Though sometimes it’s reversed) So I have to watch out that the elders aren’t all ‘Hanniel, Zadkiel, Malkiel- etc.’ It gets confusing, even for me XD

    The characters of other tribes often have Arabic, Persian, and Turkish names, though not as a rule. I have a few others mixed in there too if they suit especially well. Faye is from a different region than the others, with a slightly different culture. (Because it’s close to the sea and it has a lot of cultural drift, but I won’t get into that XD)

    She and her family all have short, often nature-related names. (She has six siblings, so I had to pick a lot of names XD) So her brothers and sisters have names like Juniper and Sage. Their names just sound different from the others, and it kinda works.

    I do go on sound a lot too. Like, Faye sounds really soft and feathery (At least to me), and I have another character named Chantara. To me, that name sounds kind of sharp and strong. Hakan sounds aggressive in every way, and Sahar sounds light and airy.

    To summarize, there is no method to the madness XD

    Yes I’d heard that about the Roman law too! I also heard like “turn the other cheek” was pretty tongue in cheek since you could only legally slap one cheek.

    I heard that too! It’s actually really cool!

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #132769
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Exactly! Barbarians! XD What I’ve seen of the series, they ripped out the aesthetic thoroughly.

    HOW CAN THEY RIP OUT THE AESTHETIC MOVIES ARE VISUAL FEASTS IF THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ahem, that does sound like a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful aesthetic! Oh I can almost feel it filled with delicate sweeping perfume of flowers *siiiigh*.

    Oh, that’s interesting, it’s been a while since I watched it, but I don’t remember any of that. I did catch that a lot of it was about racial prejudice. (I actually thought they handled that well.)

    Yea it did have some good takes on the racial prejudice themes and the bunny (what was her name I’ve only ever watched once at a friend’s house…) she had a good ‘static’ character arc keeping her core beliefs from beginning to end despite everything.

    For the main characters, I’ll worry about meaning more than the sides.

    Lol yes! Like you -you side character you have not made yourself worthy of an intensely meaningful name yet! (side character; ok *goes and makes self pivotal to the plot and the theme when I was gonna have her exist for literally one or two scenes!; the story of how my favorite WIP character are born sigh*)

    Ooh, that’s so cool! I totally think of roses whenever I hear Rosario, and it does sound a bit… tougher? than Rosa. I think it’s the sharp r’s and the o ending.

    ‘R’ are definitely sharp like bullets that’s why we say ‘murder’ instead of ‘mude’ because Rs are cruel and callous!!

    It’s called synesthesia. It’s extremely cool and I did a bunch of research on that because I think Sahar has it.

    Whoa cool! I’m not (entirely) crazy! *lol is totally crazy*
    Yes, people tend to be colors and shapes and particular lines or animals or objects! Every number has a strong personality and a color to go with it! Letters all have colors but I only ‘see’ the first two in words and it varies with the personality of the word! Yes! People/objects/settings have sounds or tastes too! Music is very very very colorful, sour notes shift to a really sharp color contrast!

    I do associate each of my characters with a color, but it changes around now and then XD Liorah is amber and indigo, Ferran is a sort of brick red, Gavril is bordeaux red, Acyn is beige and bright yellow, Faye is green, and Sahar is violet.

    That hurt me so much..XD
    Actually second read that actually does have some visual consistency, but it’s knifey different
    Li is black and blue, Liorah has a beautiful upward curl on otherwise firm lines , Ferran is brink-shaped but it’s also green and very soft, Gavril is lovely and intricate ‘G’ is usually brown but it’s got a nice gusty white that’s a sharp contrast to the redness of a and the sharpness of ‘ril’ but it’s mostly brown, Acyn is sharp red with some yellow which is odd the grey-white c, Faye is green and soft and relaxing and Sahar is the most gentle, calming, perky name ‘s’ can never decide what color it is it sorta fades into pastel but it leans toward a very soft green which relaxes the a’s.
    But I mean, that all fades with personality and setting and first impressions and all it’s really fun with names that look different from the people or when the name is like almost exactly the same as the visual like I once met this guy called Anton and he looked exactly like Anton!!! It was really cool XD

    But the biggest issue is that a lot of those names end the same way! Like, feminine names are often -ah endings and male are -el endings (Though sometimes it’s reversed) So I have to watch out that the elders aren’t all ‘Hanniel, Zadkiel, Malkiel- etc.’ It gets confusing, even for me XD

    Lol yes! Grrr, when the endings are all the same it kills me!

    Faye is from a different region than the others, with a slightly different culture. (Because it’s close to the sea and it has a lot of cultural drift, but I won’t get into that XD)

    Hey that’s cool, I’ve got my MC live close to the sea which gives him a lotta different experience and cultural variety with the pretty hot and humid town from the other kingdom. Fantasy cultures are soooo cool!

    I do go on sound a lot too. Like, Faye sounds really soft and feathery (At least to me), and I have another character named Chantara. To me, that name sounds kind of sharp and strong. Hakan sounds aggressive in every way, and Sahar sounds light and airy.

    *deep happy sigh* yes! Those are exactly the feels (except Chantara’s more boxy than sharp to me lol)

    *has suddenly realized we’ve been discussing everything but art at the art discussion forum…erk, oh well*

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #132971
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Yea it did have some good takes on the racial prejudice themes and the bunny (what was her name I’ve only ever watched once at a friend’s house…) she had a good ‘static’ character arc keeping her core beliefs from beginning to end despite everything.

    Yes, Judy! Actually, I watched a video where someone analyzed the character arc, and it’s actually much more complex than it seems.

    It was a positive character arc, but it wasn’t very extreme and quite subtly done.

    Judy went from distrusting foxes, (Even though she claimed to be ‘open-minded’) to only trusting Nick, and then near the midpoint, she reverted back to her mistrust, only to completely eradicate the Lie.

    It was actually really cool since Judy doesn’t start at the most extreme point, where she’s openly hating foxes, but at a more complicated spot, where she was lying to herself about it. Her arc was basically going from tolerance to acceptance. I must admit, I didn’t see the arc until it was spelled out, but it was actually really well done!

    (side character; ok *goes and makes self pivotal to the plot and the theme when I was gonna have her exist for literally one or two scenes!; the story of how my favorite WIP character are born sigh*)

    LOL, that’s familiar XD I’ve had several characters do that, and one of them is busily trying to usurp the position of main character. I’ve actually briefly considered swapping out Liorah, but that would make for an entirely different story, with a different theme, a different setting, and like… three scenes in common XD Besides, I adore Liorah, she just makes me laugh.

    Yes, people tend to be colors and shapes and particular lines or animals or objects! Every number has a strong personality and a color to go with it! Letters all have colors but I only ‘see’ the first two in words and it varies with the personality of the word! Yes! People/objects/settings have sounds or tastes too! Music is very very very colorful, sour notes shift to a really sharp color contrast!

    Ooh, that’s like the coolest thing!! I was curious, do you see entire songs as one color, or is it like, each note is a different color? And if people have colors and music has colors, which one is stronger? Like, for example, if a person you thought of as red was singing, would you see the color of the music, or the color of the person, or both? And, do you like actually see the color, or do you just visualize it?

    Sorry for all the questions, it’s just beyond fascinating and I haven’t been able to figure it out. XD

    That hurt me so much..XD
    Actually second read that actually does have some visual consistency, but it’s knifey different
    Li is black and blue, Liorah has a beautiful upward curl on otherwise firm lines , Ferran is brink-shaped but it’s also green and very soft, Gavril is lovely and intricate ‘G’ is usually brown but it’s got a nice gusty white that’s a sharp contrast to the redness of a and the sharpness of ‘ril’ but it’s mostly brown, Acyn is sharp red with some yellow which is odd the grey-white c, Faye is green and soft and relaxing and Sahar is the most gentle, calming, perky name ‘s’ can never decide what color it is it sorta fades into pastel but it leans toward a very soft green which relaxes the a’s.

    That was one of the coolest things I’ve ever read!! That’s so awesome!! It’s so cool that you see it in so much detail! I also think it’s really interesting how the names just sort of ‘fit’ with the characters! I also read that people with synesthesia very rarely see the same colors, so if they start talking about it, they’ll never agree on what color something is. XD

    Hey that’s cool, I’ve got my MC live close to the sea which gives him a lotta different experience and cultural variety with the pretty hot and humid town from the other kingdom. Fantasy cultures are soooo cool!

    IKR! The cities are one of my favorite things to write about! Like, there’s a city, Hisar, that I’ve written about quite often. I always visualize it a lot like the Old City of Jerusalem, especially the market. It isn’t identical, but it has the same feel and general aesthetic. Then there’s another city (I forgot the name XD) but it’s a lot smaller and further south, so I picture it completely different. It’s built into a mountainside, so that’s really cool. And in the next book, I can probably introduce the biggest port city, Ticaret. That’ll be so much fun to write since there’s a ton of trade and it’ll be so visually interesting!

    What I really love about the seven tribe system I picked out is that you can have sooo many different cultures that all influence each other slightly, but are still distinct! That was kinda a spur of the moment decision while I had no idea what I was doing, so I’m surprised it works at all XD

    *deep happy sigh* yes! Those are exactly the feels (except Chantara’s more boxy than sharp to me lol)

    Awesome! Also, I was just looking through my old notes. (Which is always funny since it’s changed SO much.) and my second choice for Liorah’s name was Ivanya. If I look at it now, that’s hilarious since it just does not suit her XD I like the name, but not for her XD Oh, and Sahar was almost named Nadia. Like, no. 

     

     

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #133046
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    t was actually really cool since Judy doesn’t start at the most extreme point, where she’s openly hating foxes, but at a more complicated spot, where she was lying to herself about it. Her arc was basically going from tolerance to acceptance. I must admit, I didn’t see the arc until it was spelled out, but it was actually really well done!

    Ooh good point! Yeah Judy really did have an excellent character arc, it was beautifully done.

    LOL, that’s familiar XD I’ve had several characters do that, and one of them is busily trying to usurp the position of main character. I’ve actually briefly considered swapping out Liorah, but that would make for an entirely different story, with a different theme, a different setting, and like… three scenes in common XD Besides, I adore Liorah, she just makes me laugh.

    Lol, see with my WIP I fell so in love with one minor character he became the main character; completely different theme, completely different story all the nine yards. *sigh* but it was worth it, he’s a great character.

    do you see entire songs as one color, or is it like, each note is a different color? And if people have colors and music has colors, which one is stronger? Like, for example, if a person you thought of as red was singing, would you see the color of the music, or the color of the person, or both? And, do you like actually see the color, or do you just visualize it?

    Most songs have a pretty steady color and a couple other colors blend in sometimes even some pretty distinct instrument visuals like clicking bones, visible breath, and thump thumpy circles/footsteps/knocking doors. My favorites are the songs with the black backgrounds :D. But then like once my sister was singing Lion King’s Can You Feel the Love Tonight? and it was crystal blue and she hit an off-note and it turned pink.
    Music is stronger than person visuals, like my parish priest is square-red but he sings in blue (blue is very clear and ranges from alto to soprano, most Broadways and Disney musicals are blue but it depends on the emotion too). But I don’t get colors/shapes for every person sometimes I just get really distinct “feels” and it’s not so constant it’s distracting usually it be more like when I think of that person I have a clear set of colors etc that I associate to that person.
    I don’t actually see the color, thankfully, that would be distracting.
    Nono thanks! Usually when I say something like that people are like ‘O-k, are you being New Age-y or something?’ Or just like ‘Ok. Weird.’ But it’s really fun to talk about!

    I also read that people with synesthesia very rarely see the same colors, so if they start talking about it, they’ll never agree on what color something is. XD

    Lol that would be a funny argument like ‘that note is blue!’ ‘No pink!’ ‘Blue!’ ‘Pink!’ *soft voice in the background* ‘purple.’ For. Ever. But yea it probably wouldn’t be the same I mean I associate a lot with individual colors, textures, sounds and half of that’s probably a mix of personality and aesthetic preference.

    IKR! The cities are one of my favorite things to write about! Like, there’s a city, Hisar, that I’ve written about quite often. I always visualize it a lot like the Old City of Jerusalem, especially the market. It isn’t identical, but it has the same feel and general aesthetic. Then there’s another city (I forgot the name XD) but it’s a lot smaller and further south, so I picture it completely different. It’s built into a mountainside, so that’s really cool. And in the next book, I can probably introduce the biggest port city, Ticaret. That’ll be so much fun to write since there’s a ton of trade and it’ll be so visually interesting! What I really love about the seven tribe system I picked out is that you can have sooo many different cultures that all influence each other slightly, but are still distinct! That was kinda a spur of the moment decision while I had no idea what I was doing, so I’m surprised it works at all XD

    That’s so cool! Especially the Old City of Jerusalem aesthetic!
    Yeah, my WIP follows an MC from the humid sea coast in a dry town with a subclass of glass people and with traveling striders roaming through for festivals so there’s a lotta cultural mix there with a new distinctive monument/place whenever I need a new plotpoint while I develop the main plot XD. Lol most of my settings are spur of the moments or hang-overs from spur of the moments that ended up not working with the one scene/story/idea.

    Awesome! Also, I was just looking through my old notes. (Which is always funny since it’s changed SO much.) and my second choice for Liorah’s name was Ivanya. If I look at it now, that’s hilarious since it just does not suit her XD I like the name, but not for her XD Oh, and Sahar was almost named Nadia. Like, no.

    IKR! Old notes are just crazy compared to where you are now! And all the different names to go through lol, idk if anybody who reads my notes later (they better not dare!) would be able to tell which character I was talking about cos I changed the names so frequently they might be like ‘there’s twenty different characters on this plot line!’ when it’s just like one who’s name I couldn’t decide on XD.
    Lol Ivanya is just too elegant (though just as fierce) for Liorah!

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

    #133113
    Rose
    @rose-colored-fancy

    @this-is-not-an-alien

    Lol, see with my WIP I fell so in love with one minor character he became the main character; completely different theme, completely different story all the nine yards. *sigh* but it was worth it, he’s a great character.

    LOL, that sounds like so much work, but if it means you’re happier with the story, it’s worth it!

    Nono thanks! Usually when I say something like that people are like ‘O-k, are you being New Age-y or something?’ Or just like ‘Ok. Weird.’ But it’s really fun to talk about!

    Ooh, that’s all so cool!! I’m totally taking notes XD Yeah, I was kinda intrigued and kinda confused the first time I heard about it, (in a psychology crash course, yes, that’s my idea of fun XD)

    They actually don’t know that much about what causes synesthesia, except that it’s partially genetic, and if you have one form, you’re much more likely to have more than one. (You actually have at least two kinds)

    Apparently, it’s caused by extra connections between the sections of the brain that interpret the senses or something like that. I absolutely nerd about neuroscience, but I can’t remember all the terms XD

    It’s relatively rare, about 4% of the population.

    Lol that would be a funny argument like ‘that note is blue!’ ‘No pink!’ ‘Blue!’ ‘Pink!’ *soft voice in the background* ‘purple.’ For. Ever. But yea it probably wouldn’t be the same I mean I associate a lot with individual colors, textures, sounds and half of that’s probably a mix of personality and aesthetic preference.

    There are some consistencies, actually, but only a few. Many people see the letter a as red, and the letter v as purple. Otherwise, it differs a lot.

    That’s so cool! Especially the Old City of Jerusalem aesthetic!
    Yeah, my WIP follows an MC from the humid sea coast in a dry town with a subclass of glass people and with traveling striders roaming through for festivals so there’s a lotta cultural mix there with a new distinctive monument/place whenever I need a new plotpoint while I develop the main plot XD. Lol most of my settings are spur of the moments or hang-overs from spur of the moments that ended up not working with the one scene/story/idea.

    Ooh, that’s so cool! My settings are kinda basic XD Basically, there are three settings, (Excluding the cities I mentioned before) the Nebatan country, near the sea, the middle of the country (Where Liorah lives), and the mountains in the south. Since towns and cities are few and far between, there isn’t much to describe. It is funny to have Faye describe the desert though. It comes down to: “Rocks, dust, rocks, sand, shrubs, more rocks, and dust.”

    IKR! Old notes are just crazy compared to where you are now! And all the different names to go through lol, idk if anybody who reads my notes later (they better not dare!) would be able to tell which character I was talking about cos I changed the names so frequently they might be like ‘there’s twenty different characters on this plot line!’ when it’s just like one who’s name I couldn’t decide on XD.
    Lol Ivanya is just too elegant (though just as fierce) for Liorah!

    IKR! I don’t really know what I was thinking, but I’m really glad I picked Liorah instead. My notes are an absolute mess. Reading them is hilarious. Like why did I think that an event that I could describe in 200 words would be a whole chapter? No wonder there’s so much filler, there’s barely any substance XD And reading over the old character descriptions is especially funny. Like, Acyn was supposed to have blue eyes? That’s just so deeply… wrong XD And Ferran’s eyes were originally green, somehow?? And don’t get me started on worldbuilding XD

    Okay, random question!

    What is the weirdest POV you’ve ever read? Like, not the character himself, but the pov in general.

    I have an easy winner XD It’s a Dutch middle-grade book “The Master Thief” that I picked out because the cover looked cool and the blurb sounded good. The blurb made it sound like a fairly regular epic fantasy, albeit some of the names were a bit odd. That did it no justice XD

    It is one of the weirdest books I’ve ever read. Like, if you can think of it, it was probably in the book. Whole castles getting moved overnight, fighting polar bears, being carried by a bunch of harnessed pigeons, and ample fourth-wall-breaking. (The main character was getting paid by his publisher for the book he was starring in.)

    But I actually admire the author, because all the extremely weird plot points tied together quite nicely. The Pov was fairly normal, at first read, but as you go on in the book, you slowly realize that the MC is actually the villain. Like, the tone is lighthearted and rather odd, but the MC was constantly doing relatively evil things remorselessly. Also, the pov was so unreliable because you could tell he was vastly, vastly exaggerating everything. The ‘antagonist’ was actually the hero, and eventually, there was a redemption arc, reconciliation, and a happy ending.

    I still appreciate that book, because it was extremely creative XD

     

     

    Without darkness, there is no light. If there was no nighttime, would the stars be as bright?

    #133272
    Cathy
    @this-is-not-an-alien

    LOL, that sounds like so much work, but if it means you’re happier with the story, it’s worth it!

    It was a lotta work but I mean I literally just started the first draft like ‘I have no clue what I’m doing I have no clue where this is going, oh look I can do this here there and there and-looky there I still have no clue what I’m doing XD’. So I mean…yeah it was a lotta work but now I love the characters!

    Ooh, that’s all so cool!! I’m totally taking notes XD Yeah, I was kinda intrigued and kinda confused the first time I heard about it, (in a psychology crash course, yes, that’s my idea of fun XD)

    Ha you too!?! I spent so much time on psychology it freaked Mom out, but yeah, neuroscience is what I’m looking for more than psychology. I love the different ways the brain works like the left brain right brain functions and noise cross-over to physical sensations and the different nobes in the brain that completely change your way of thinking! *sheepish grin* fellow neuroscience nerd here <3
    How many different kinds of synesthesia are there?
    Oh yeah I have an excess of extra brain connections like getting almost physical reactions to other people’s emotions or inventing an entire conspiracy over the color somebody wants to dye their hair as lol (but that’s probably just an extreme emotions thing not extra connections thing).

    It’s relatively rare, about 4% of the population.

    Cool! I’m a rare percentage of the population heheh!

    There are some consistencies, actually, but only a few. Many people see the letter a as red, and the letter v as purple. Otherwise, it differs a lot.

    A’s probably red because a says ‘aah’ as in apple and apples are red XD. Nooo w is purple and v is…actually it can’t decide whether it’s brown or black…(w shouldn’t be pronounced ‘double u’ it should be pronounced ‘double v’!)

    It is funny to have Faye describe the desert though. It comes down to: “Rocks, dust, rocks, sand, shrubs, more rocks, and dust.”

    Lol Faye sounds funny! That’s be an interesting setting to work with, do you have normal animals or invented animals or classic fantasy animals there?

    What is the weirdest POV you’ve ever read? Like, not the character himself, but the pov in general

    The weirdest POV, lemmie see I’ve read a lotta interesting styles of narrative, the latest I’m reading the Wingfeather Saga and it’s narrative is hysterical my favorite are the footnotes and my favorite footnotes so far; ‘*snotwax; something too disgusting to have a decent footnote’ and ‘*. Yakev Brrz abhorred all manner of animal abuse, most of all the habit of referring to pets as “baby” and attributing to them human characteristics. Yakev’s first wife, Zaga, esteemed her two Beckitt Terriers so much that she insisted they sit at the table with them at dinner and that they sleep at the foot of their bed. Yakev, whose communication skills with all manner of animals was unmatched, failed to convince Zaga that her “babies” detested the eating practices of humans and would much rather have not worn the matching lavender lace pajamas to sleep in their human bed. Late one fateful night when Zaga was fast asleep, Yakev tiptoed to the foot of the bed, gathered Schpoontzy and Kiki carefully in his arms, carried them outside, drew from his sleeve a sharp knife, and put them out of their misery. Which is to say that he cut the lavender lace pajamas from the oppressed dogs and set them running free in the moonlight, never to return. It’s said that once word of the dogs’ deliverance at the hands of the mighty Yakev Brrz spread among dog-kind, wherever Yakev passed, all breeds of dogs yowled and respectfully rolled onto their backs. Nothing more is known of Zaga.’
    All that to say it has a hysterical narrative! The Wizard of Oz had a weird narrative but it didn’t really entertain me when I read it. I loved Inkheart because it had a very clear ‘emotional narrative’ (a term I made up) that described as much as possible in a way that directed to the themes and the key elements of the story. It was about someone who could read books to life so the villain was described so clearly ‘skin as white as parchment’ etc etc and the author would describe things in a way like the real world was in conflict with the magical, poetic prose she used to describe everything that came out of the books but described the characters from the ‘real world’ in a deep POV so like the descriptions seemed to have an internal conflict of their own that really reflected the themes and it was just really soulful and interesting.
    Another one, Shadow of the Bear, was really clear and simple in its narrative. It didn’t linger on descriptors but it have a nice aesthetic. Although it was set in New York, the descriptions lingered on whim and otherworldliness during thematic/intense scenes. So even though it was a ‘modern’ story with a ‘modern’ setting it really worked with its fairytale retelling (of Rose Red and Snow White).

    I still appreciate that book, because it was extremely creative XD

    Oooooh that’s a winner! *makes note to keep up with novels you read as they sound very very interesting* That is such an awesome technique I’m so glad somebody’s done that! My sister and I were once talking about like write a story or play a video game where you’re the villain but you don’t know it until the end!

    Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

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