October 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm #50772
@the-fledgling-artist, XD!!! It would be really weird to see Jesus try that!!!
Living in a world of mystery and dangerous predicaments while working with the AWESOME Meraki's.October 4, 2018 at 12:35 pm #50777
Hey! No worries! You haven’t sounded pushy at all… besides… I think many of us like a good challenge 🙂
Now, as out of character as it might seem for Jesus to inflict physical pain on anyone, we must remember that Justice is one of his attributes as he is God. He has every right to punish sin, and he was sending out those who were misusing the place of worship, and who should ahve known better.
It would be fully within God’s nature to punish sin, and expel sinful man through force.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 12:35 pm #50778
We cannot isolate Jesus from being God, which assumes all of his attributes.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 12:37 pm #50779
Very true, @wordsmith!
Living in a world of mystery and dangerous predicaments while working with the AWESOME Meraki's.October 4, 2018 at 12:38 pm #50780
You just tagged yourself, @wordsmith . . . .
Living in a world of mystery and dangerous predicaments while working with the AWESOME Meraki's.October 4, 2018 at 12:40 pm #50781
XD wouldn’t be the first time.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 1:12 pm #50784
@wordsmith You are absolutely correct. It would be foolish to deny that Jesus and God (along with the Holy Spirit!) are one. However while they are the same, Jesus came to earth specifically to show us mercy for failing to live up to our covenants with God. (Like the covenants made with Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, and the entire nation of Israel.) We deserve just as bad if not worse then those moneychangers in the temple. Jesus’ role wasn’t to unleash that judgement though. His role was to reveal God’s love and mercy for us.
(I’m so glad I’m not sounding pushy! It’s far too easy for me to become prideful in situations where I think I’m right. I need to keep an open mind. 🙂 )
"Though I'm not yet who I will be, I'm no longer who I was."October 4, 2018 at 1:27 pm #50787
I’m not saying he was bringing judgement, but that he was showing them they didn’t belong, and either way, whether he struck them or not, he drove them out. They were probably very afraid of whatever was coming. And even if he did strike them, wouldn’t that be a mercy? When we discipline our children (we as in our parents to us), are we not showing them mercy? In driving them out, he stopped them from practicing a sin that was heaping judgment upon themselves.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 1:32 pm #50788Hedges@h-jones
@wordsmith I definitely recall reading that verse somewhere, so you’re good. xD And you make great points! Anger definitely isn’t something that is expressly sinful. I think I’m just cautious about the subject because I’m kind of an angry person by nature? Or not necessarily angry, but perhaps passionate and protective, which comes out when I’m angry. xDD
Also, yes! We shouldn’t live in fear. Nice. 🙂 That’s a great reminder, and true. Don’t let fear decide whether or not what we feel is our duty. *nods solemnly*
As for martial arts, well, not particularly? I used to, though – elite Yoshukai Karate, which was awesome. Been thinking about taking it up again. That’s probably where that thought on Martial Arts came from. xD
@the-fledgling-artist Oh, yeah, no. xD That’s true, I don’t think there’s much evidence for Jesus actually physically hurting anyone in Matthew 21:12 or corresponding verses. In fact, I kind of doubt He did. But like @wordsmith said, yeah, as I personally believe Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, they would thus share the same traits such as justice and the same rights as the right to punish sinful behavior. (Though honestly I agree with your argument on Jesus coming to show mercy and love to us. *high-five*) What I initially meant, however, in using the example was that He was actively defending Himself/the Father using force.
And no, you totally do not sound the least bit pushy. xD
@parker Yes, totally not bad to be between points. It’s great that you’re thinking about it! 😀
Married a blacksmith, and now frequently uses his knowledge for writing fantasy.October 4, 2018 at 1:34 pm #50789Hedges@h-jones
Oh, haha, I got ninja’d.
Man, it’s like I agree with what both of you are saying, if that’s even possible. Regardless of whether He actually inflicted harm, I do think discipline is a form of mercy. And He came to show mercy and love. Nice.
Carry on, good fellows.
Married a blacksmith, and now frequently uses his knowledge for writing fantasy.October 4, 2018 at 1:38 pm #50790
@wordsmith Once again, I kind of agree with what you’re saying.. But on the slight chance they he did use any form of violence, if it was for the sake of discipline how does that apply to self defense? Self defense is not discipline. Self defense is causing someone else physical harm in order to prevent them from inflicting harm to us.
"Though I'm not yet who I will be, I'm no longer who I was."October 4, 2018 at 1:45 pm #50797
I’m pointing out that Jesus was in no way pacifist right. He was acting with tremendous force (whether physically touching them or not). He drove them out. I’d be willing to bet that they were very afraid of him. He was reacting to wrong with something non-passive. Did he let them use the temple for something unholy? No.
In the case of sexual assault or attempted rape… do I have to let them use my body and temple for something unholy? No. I believe I can fight back, and forcefully stop them.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 2:00 pm #50801Ara@itisastarrynight
@eden-anderson Hey I am thefledglingartist’s sister. Thought I would say hello!
I noticed you guys are discussing self-defense.
I have been persuaded personally that wouldn’t be right for me, despite the dangerous world we live in today. It isn’t because of my heritage, but because of some cool verses I have seen.
In Luke 3 John the Baptist is preaching the new Kingdom of God, and the repentance of sins, etc, when different types of multitudes ask him questions of how they should live their new lives.
Luke 3:14: “And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man…”kjv
And then there is James 5:6, “Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.”kjv.
Matthew 5, v7, “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy”, v39 “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also” v44″But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”. Also kjv.
These are some of the verses that I hoped have shaped my thinking. 🙂
Sketching with no reference is like hiking without a map!October 4, 2018 at 2:00 pm #50802
Cool! That system of martial arts looks really cool. I’ve trained in Okinawan Karate, which I think would be similar to what you learned.
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comOctober 4, 2018 at 2:03 pm #50803
@wordsmith I don’t claim that Jesus was a pacifist. (I prefer the term nonresistant. If you’r curious what that means I can go find what page I mentioned that for you). And then on your next point, No you don’t have to. You don’t have to let anyone do anything unjust to you. But I believe that living like Jesus means sacrificing my own well being in order to show love. And only love. Jesus didn’t have to die on the cross. And I don’t have to let creepy men touch me. (Of course I am not saying I want anyone to do anything bad to me!) If I can avoid abuse of course I will. But not at the cost of putting my own well being before that of my attacker.
I can see that you’ve put a lot of thought into your opinions, and at this point I think the only one who can change either of our minds is the Holy Spirit. If you have any more questions for me I’ll do my best to answer you, but at this point it seems like we’re just debating circles around each other. 🙂
"Though I'm not yet who I will be, I'm no longer who I was."
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