November 21, 2018 at 12:29 pm #60825
Okay, so I probably shouldn’t step in with so many opinions already bouncing around, but I was genuinely interested about your debate with Selah.
You asked, “…but my question is this: why, if salvation cannot be lost do these ‘if’s exist?”
Okay, so where do I start? My thoughts seem all jumbled together right now, so I’m going to attempt untangle them as I go along. (Please bear with me!)
But, in answer to your question, my short answer would be that these passages are simply a warning God used as a means to help us to endure, and persevere in our faith. You say this warning poses the possibility that a (genuine) believer can fall away. But, if you’re correct, than isn’t God’s promise to preserve us subject to fail? (see John 10:28, Philippians 1:6, and John 6:39-40) Against this view, I would argue that these passages (like the one in Hebrews 6) are simply warnings that alert us to dangers that will try to entice us to forsake Jesus. They don’t say that faith can possibly fail. They are simply used as encouragement to remain completely and steadfastly loyal to Jesus.
Have you read the rest of Hebrews 6? Because, starting in verse 9, it says, “9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12 We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.” 15 And thus Abraham, having patiently waited, obtained the promise. 16 For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. 17 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. 19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.” (NIV)
I believe that the rest of this passage confirms that all who believed shall one day obtain salvation.
Okay, so as for your other passages I would address each of them, but I’m running short on time, so I’m just going to quickly say that the one in Romans 11 I believe was actually referring to the Jews and Gentiles as a whole, and not individual salvation, and the one in 2 Peter 2 WAS actually referring to false believers (the chapter as a whole was about false teachers).
Oh, and one more thing before I go: if you believe that a true Christian can lose their salvation, then where do you find your bold assurance that YOU are indeed saved? I’m really interested in hearing. 🙂
Okay, that’s all I can say for now. I hope that it made sense…
*slinks back into her dark corner of the room*
"True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less." - C. S. LewisNovember 21, 2018 at 1:30 pm #60836Ariel Ashira@ashira
@theinconceivable1 *continues stalking topic* *feels like an spy if you don’t know I am here*
I have stalked this topic…for a long time. Almost since it began. But I am a girl, and a 67 expert…neither of which seem very welcome around here.
I am NOT crazy about tea, if that helps any! Whoops..I said the dreaded word. *groans* Now you’ll hafta post the song again! Or do you only post it when someone is advocating tea?
I will hang out with @wordsmith on the side unless the Inconceivable Prince decides I can speak once in a while… I love debate stuff like this, but I don’t usually have time to keep up with it.
And yeah, cool profile picture! Did your little bro draw it?
Wow, @selah-chelyah he actually showed some emotion when you said you were leaving! I began to wonder if it was possible. 😛 😀
And lastly, I have no idea what the baby shark song is, but based on the reactions of several individuals, I will NOT be looking it up to see. 😀
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Ariel Ashira.
"No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall, you are never out of the fight."November 21, 2018 at 2:05 pm #60841
Girls are very welcome here! It’s just that our good friend @theinconceivable1 wanted to meet some of the guys on SE. So please hang out! I’ll be sitting here on the sidelines, possibly throwing in a few essays every now and then 😉
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comNovember 21, 2018 at 2:16 pm #60843
Alright. -sighs- -flops on couch- -gets on SE to relax and join in the fun and see what I missed- -chokes- -in hoarse voice- TWO AND A HALF MORE PAGES!?!?!?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?
Oh that’s cool! OH BURNING STUFF!? DOES YOUR CHARACTER HAVE FIRE POWERS!? -finally realizes what you said- Wait… if your character’s under water how can he/she/it burn stuff? (please answer the fire powers thing though)
Okay… I won’t listen to the shark thing. Especially since so many people think it’s annoying. -wonders if it’s as bad as the raining tacos song-
Fellow homeschooler! -high fives-
Hmmm. I’d say you’re somewhere between 12 and 16, maybe 17. Let’s see… hmm… I’m not sure what I think you are exactly.
What!? Awww. BYE!!!
Yes. Yes he does. The prince just pretends he doesn’t. (Hmm. Do I capitalize prince? Whatever. -wanders off to seriously injure characters-)
@theinconceivable1 (if only we could @ you as the prince…)
That’s a very cool profile picture! Your brother drew it? What’d he use? Also, on a side note. Have you worked on drawing your sword/bow weapon?
Welcome! We can have our own little conversation while everyone else debates.
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Veraza Winterknight.
"You can dance with my henchman."November 21, 2018 at 2:22 pm #60845Ariel Ashira@ashira
@wordsmith Ah, okay! Thanks!
"No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall, you are never out of the fight."November 21, 2018 at 2:50 pm #60849Selah CJW@selah-chelyahNovember 21, 2018 at 3:59 pm #60853Catwing@catwing
@theinconceivable1 Honestly my first thought was infinity helmet (like from the Avengers)… Then I remembered that Thanos doesn’t have a helmet…
It’s nice. Very well done. *stares at the talking floating helmet* *nods* Yep. (I don’t digitally draw, I mostly sketch with a pencil. 😛 )
“IDK, just the way you act I guess : D ”
@wordsmith That makes sense. Not all stories are 50k.
About three-four months, I think.
*le gasp* You could remember your character’s name? Kenneth. (I may have forgotten some character names sometime…)
So the suit doesn’t augment walking? It needs a faster pace/more energy to augment?
@ashira Ditto. Except I’m intermediate. 😛
@kari-karast You know you can subscribe to topics to get emails when someone posts right? It can be helpful keeping up with topics where people post a lot of replies. But don’t feel like you have to subscribe to all topics. *cough*
Sadly no fire powers… But there are some powerful swords. One of them can burn stuff. 😀
Okay three characters are underwater. Another different character is the one setting things on fire. And one other character is inside a inactive volcano, that everyone calls a mountain, with a dragon. And another one is chatting with a bear in a secret camp in the woods. They got separated and I’m holding myself back trying not to add any more POVs. DX
Maybe… I don’t know if I’ve heard that one. But I probably don’t want to. 😛
Yeah! *accepts high five*
I’m a cat with wings (cause you said you don’t know what I am. Okay, okay. 😉 )
Capitalization: You don’t capitalize if it is talking about them (eg. Here is the prince. The prince will arrive at noon.), but you do capitalize names (eg. This is Prince George. Prince George is hungry.). Does that make any sense?
@selah-chelyah @theinconceivable1 @kari-karast
*clear throat* *taps mic* *boom, boom* Okay it’s on I guess. *speaks up* There has been some people wondering about my age. And now I’m going to tell you my age. Unless anyone else wanted to guess? *scans crowd*
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Catwing.
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Catwing. Reason: It's inconceivable, not conceivable. *facepalm* Silly overactive imagination
When your wings are weak and you feel like you can't fly any farther you're halfway there!November 21, 2018 at 4:17 pm #60857
I shall look forward to hearing your thoughts then! See you later! *waves*
I have a guess, if you want to hear it.
I think you’re probably older than me, but at the same time not that old…. so… I’ll guess 17. Maybe 18? No, 17. Final guess. 😜
"True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less." - C. S. LewisNovember 21, 2018 at 4:17 pm #60858
Ugh, why does your tag never work for me?
Let me try again.
"True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less." - C. S. LewisNovember 21, 2018 at 4:18 pm #60859
Still didn’t work.
"True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less." - C. S. LewisNovember 21, 2018 at 4:25 pm #60860
I forget things a lot too. XD. I haven’t been able to remember the name of one of my MC’s homeworld for a year now.
I do know I can subscribe. I am subscribed to this thread actually. It was just… a lot.
Ah. I was wondering because I have sooo many characters with fire powers. OOH! SWORDS!? Sound fun! AND A DRAGON. AND A BEAR. Now I really wanna read it.
DON’T LISTEN TO IT IT’S REALLY ANNOYING. (mostly because of the voice and because I don’t like tacos though)
I do know your a cat with wings thanks. XD. -coughs- -points at your profile picture and username-
Okay. Yes. The capitalizations thing makes sense. Thanks.
JUST TELL US ALREADY!!! Please?
I think your spelling it wrong. Here. @selah-chelyah
"You can dance with my henchman."November 21, 2018 at 4:29 pm #60862
Cute kitty… what color is she? And yes. I forgot my character’s name. I’m not around him much though. And no… it’s not that it doesn’t augment the walking. It’ll make the user more stable. What happened was that he had not worn it for long enough for it to completely acclimate. He hadn’t put it to the test in other-words, is it wasn’t sure where to acclimate, until he started using it for its primary purpose, to augment movement in the more extreme circumstances.
She’s younger than 17 for sure. On her blog there’s a picture of her reading a book, only without showing the face… that being said @catwing is probably fifteen… maybe sixteen or fourteen… but my guess would be fifteen (part of me wants to say fourteen).
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comNovember 21, 2018 at 4:43 pm #60863
I thought 15 too at first. But someone (I forget who), already guessed that. @catwing said that she sometimes felt like she was 15 but had to keep telling herself that no, she wasn’t.
Has anyone else heard that Well Done song? It’s on Klove. IT’S DRIVING ME CRAZY!!! I can’t get it out of my head and I don’t even like it!!! Please tell me someone else understands my pain. Please.
"You can dance with my henchman."November 21, 2018 at 4:48 pm #60864
Hmm… That’s interesting. Really? *goes to do some research.
And yes! I know your pain. Not with that song in particular, but with others. Here’s a song to help you overcome song stuckedness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93LJVlxzE_Q
Published author, student in writing, works with HazelGracePress.comNovember 21, 2018 at 4:53 pm #60865
Hmm. I saw the song title and I don’t think I want that song stuck in my head either. Perhaps… -begins searching through Spotify playlists- I think maybe Narnia music’ll help. I usually listen to LOTR or Narnia music.
Oh, speaking of which. Have you had any strange dreams lately? I had one last night involving me, my dad, Darth Maul, Narnia weapons, lots of spiders, my old house, a lab thingy and some random person who was apparently my friend. Wow was that weird.
"You can dance with my henchman."
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