This is what I come back to…? Like I just came to reply to Noah…đâď¸
*So, seeing as I started this debate up again it is possible I may have started something*
*again.*
Ok ok, guys, a lot of arguments just spark from misunderstanding what the other people say. Lets look unpack this!
Once I reply to Camirvablahblah đ
Not usually. Both the men and women I know judge situations. In public restaurants with many unknown people, we might go in pairs. In friendly situations, they do not. Having some level of care everywhere one goes is wise, but paranoia is not. None of the men or women I know are always worried about or talking about dealing with dangerous men. In fact, they rarely do. Everyone I know just gives a proper amount of forethought before entering a given situation, nothing major. Plus, we actively eschew gratuitously dangerous situations unless necessary for some reaosn.
HuhâŚok.
I do struggle with paranoia a lot but Iâve just kinda come from that kinda environment I guess.
Tough luck. xD
Shut up! đ
Nice. As I said, rapping is a very impressive art, and I am impressed.
It is impressive. Not very useful, but still impressive lol. đđ
Yes, yes, well, first youtube kicked me of my account and made me log in again with verifications codes for absolutely no reason, then it started eating my comments and occaoinally spitting them back out until I had responded to a person like four times. Uncool.
Ok thatâs legitimately awful and uncool. Iâll go murder it for you đĽ°
OK BACK TO THE GAMES!!!!!!!
Lona: I believe your big point against what Mr Brian was saying was that you didnât think those particular verses are applicable and that PHYSICAL strength and protection isnât necessary for a man. Before I get to argument my points I want to be sure I know Iâve got everybodyâs points correct so I wonât give my opinion until everybody confirms theirâs.
Instead, you say men should be the spiritual âstrong man/leaderâ, correct?
Ok (Iâm going by order of comments XD)
Mr Brian: you are holding firm that IDEALLY men should physically and spiritually protect and that a household is not receiving its fullest good if either are lacking, yes?
I know I said I wasnât going to give my opinions yet but I do want to know to everybody that I think quoting verses is great and itâs a good way to saturate people in the overall beliefs but trying to cite a particular verse to support a particular thing just doesnât really work because thereâs just so much context in the Bible so like it can help but it canât prove so I donât really care whether those particular verses are applicable or not. Overall Iâd just say yes strong man and strong menâs roles, that works, itâs observation not hard evidence because we live by faith and probabilities XDD.
Anatomy: you were trying to connect the physical and the mental aspects of male and female to give a fuller picture, right?
I know you didnât mean to be offensive but I can see how thatâd sound really patronizing, I come from a very blunt and neurodiverse family so like it takes a lot for something that sounds insensitive to offend me so Iâm not offended by I can see everybodyâs point there.
But the main point was that God designed men and women to be suited for different tasks. And thereâs some confusion with everybody using the words equal and different, I think you define equal as same in purpose while everyone else is defining it same in status and when I say status I mean inalienable rights as a human being.
And different, Iâm gonna define as like different roles generally or âall things being ideally situationedâ
Now on further examination, you define, ideally, menâs role as providing physically â financially, property-security-wise, and in final-decision-making and spiritually â child-rearing, role-modelling, and guiding.
And womenâs role, ideally (by ideally I mean in the most ideal conditions) as caretaking â dispensing of money, use of prudence and caution, advising and alerting her man to her needs and the needs of others. And physically caretaking and providing for children, role-modelling and guiding.
About like that?
Now, effeminizing, this is the biggest one here I think because I donât think everybody is on the same page with what their identifying as effeminate. So. Everybody give me their strict definition I donât even dare to guess. This definition needs to state what defining categorizations is being used and whether or not there are exceptions.
Now I think weâre also working with purpose verses dispositions, like people are getting edgy and not hearing a clear definition of what is the role and how it is acted upon individually.
Like if a man cannot say, provide financial support, say the woman is richer and they marry and he doesnât get a job coz theyâve got all the money they need, heâs not failing his role right? Even if heâs not fulfilling the âphysically provide financial supportâ part.
So like thereâs a give and a take there for both ends I think. Everybody here needs to listen to see whatâs really being argued, is it really necessary for every guy to seek every single aspect of the âideal conditions roleâ? Is it any less valid as a role for how men should behave by enlarge?
just throwing some questions first, Iâm still not opinionating until I get everybodyâs arguments fully explainedâŚthis time đ
This is probably because we have different viewpoints on womenâs subordination to men. I for one, see men and women created as equals and believe they should be treated as such.
Alright, HEREâS a key phrase; subordination vs equality, are they necessarily incompatible opposites? Does obedience make you inferior to the one you obey even when you freely choose to obey them?
What I mean isâŚdoes being freely subordinate to someone in any way take from your dignity as a human being? This is very status-oriented, and is status really important to equality?
Iâm not giving my opinion until I ask all my questions so donât imply my answer I ainât giving it!
Simply put, not every household has a âstrong manâ. Some households have men who are ill or disabled. Some households have single mothers. But, I believe the ill and disabled men still love their families just as much as any other man. I believe the single mothers still love their children just as much as any other mother. To say that ill and disabled men (who may have gotten sick or injured through no fault of their own) have failed as the protectors of the family is extremely insensitive. Even more insensitive is implying that single women are incapable of raising children. I have a male friend who was raised by a single mother. He is intelligent, kind, respectful, and passionate about the Lord. His single mother (who is neither an imbecile nor a fool) raised him better than many young men who were raised by both a man and woman.
Ok so the main argument here is exception versus rule, I think. Like yaâll are both fixed on your sides â which isnât necessarily bad â but letâs sit and decide whether the one invalidates the other or if they can both be valid but to what extend? What can you pull from both ideas? What do you have to reject as a hard rule but still keep as a soft rule? What is genuinely uncompromisable here?
To comment on the âstrong manâ deal, I think I concur. As Cathy and I discussed, the definition of a Godly man is not a big, strong, gun bearing fellow. It is a humble, meek, self-sacrificing man who provides for his family.
Bingo!
Thatâs not to dismiss big strong gun-bearing fellows as a stereotype, because like it is a big thing just like women who want to marry and be moms is a big thing and many/most of each gender has that comparably more than the other gender.
But that does not define them, meaning if a male or female lacks these attributes they are not any less male or female.
Guys want to be tough. It is only women who try to shame them for it.
Alright, this is a good statement to unpack.
Do ALL guys want to be tough?
And do all girls want to be tough as well? (coz I know I wanna be tough that was a big deal for me growing up)
And do ONLY women shame them for it?
And is wanting to be tough necessarily an acceptable trait depending on how you act on it?
Wanting to acquire the strength to be a strong protector is excellent, wanting to acquire strength for its own sake is acceptable, wanting to acquire strength for prestige is well not that great.
So very often guys prioritize âwanting to be toughâ over personal safety and the safety of others, over decency to friends and family and over a million different more important things, in which case, women rightly try to alert them, and yes, shame them by calling them out when they do something blatantly wrong with that natural urge.
Whoo, Iâm getting heated now, this is a topic that provokes a lot of emotions and trauma from both genders. Didnât mean to get angry, but still hear my point? <3 XD
And @k-a-grey, sheâs pointing out all the points that Iâdâve wanted to point out if she didnât do it so well already. So Iâm nOt sTatInG mY oPinIon but I completely agree there. Thanks girl! *highfives*
On that topic, this IS a very hot topic because there is still sexism and people are so used to extremes that the moment something crops up that âsounds similarâ to the worse part, theyâre âobviously opposing believesâ.
Men who donât want to wear guns and be tough donât diminish men who do. There is no opposition. Weâre just different and thatâs the same with different genders. The exceptions donât diminish the general inclinations of each gender.
I think itâs important to see that both of your sides have something to offer and also both your sides are a little too extreme when you donât take the other side into account and actually HEAR what theyâre saying.
So. Deep breaths everyone.
@obrian-of-the-surface-world, @lonathecat, @noah-cochran, (ok I THINK I tagged everyone throughout the post now…)
To be a light to the world you must shine in the darkness.
