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Reply To: Showing Internal Conflict

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#145242
Noah Cochran
@noah-cochran

@rose-colored-fancy

I really don’t mean it to come across harsh, I just want TTD to be as good as it can be

Hey, everything’s good. 🙂 I appreciate your candor, euphemisms and beating around the bush never helped anyone. I really hope all my betas respond like this, I want to know their exact thoughts and dislikes so I can weigh them all against each other and find a good solution.

And there’s another instance, way later on, in chapter… 35 I think, where Tristan looks Delphine up and down, practically judging how pretty she is, and she blushes.

In general, Tristan and Hugon tend to be dismissive of Delphine, Adrienne, and Joelle. They don’t particularly care about what they’re feeling, they just care if it gets in the way of what they’re doing.

And on that note, they tend to speak quite disrespectfully to and about the women. It’s nothing blatant, but I’ve noticed it multiple times.

Okay, so Tristan is not all supposed to be that way, so I must have messed him up pretty badly. xD I did not at all mean for the inn scene in chapter 35 to be construed that way, so I’ve fixed that one, but can you give me some more instances of Tristan being disrespectful to women or just plain out acting like a jerk to them (he is not supposed to be that way)?

Also, you often accentuate how pretty all three of them are, and there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it shouldn’t be universal or defining.

First off, I finally have met another teenager who uses the word accentuate instead of “emphasize.” Accentuate is so much better.

Anyway, to the point. Yes, this is a problem of mine. I have a habit of re-describing facial features, hairstyles and colors, clothing, and builds (of both men and women). My sister got onto me about this, in particular for calling Delphine’s face pretty like 5 times and Hugon’s hair blonde like 6. xD So yeah, I’ll go through it can cut out a lot of the slender forms, beautiful faces, blonde hairs, and lean bodies.

Also, that other scene where Tristan makes some comment about how Delphine is pretty despite being unhappy. Why is that necessary? Let her be unhappy and ugly, feelings aren’t supposed to be pretty.

I would agree that this introspection scene as a whole was unnecessary (so I’ll probably remove it), but knowing the mind of men, a woman can be acting petulant or angry and still appear quite attractive. I think we’re discussing the same thing, but correct me if I’m wrong.

I don’t think Adrienne would find that funny, I think she would have given Hugon a scolding.

That might very well be true, I’ll definitely ask some of my female friends about this one.

Okay, so there are a couple things I want to talk through with you, firstly, this:

Tristan constantly dismisses Delphine and treats her like a pretty bother even when she’s trying to help and she doesn’t seem to notice and doesn’t resent him for it.

Delphine is a bold, overly curious, almost prying woman for the first half of the book, so much so that one of my other betas biggest complaint about the whole book was that they thought she was overly annoying. xD Now taking this from Tristan’s perspective, he also finds her exasperating, but this is multiplied in intensity with the stress of his father and her asking many questions about him. Tristan thus thinks of her as vivacious, but very annoying woman who often feels like a nuisance.

The other aspect of this is Delphine has feelings for him, but he doesn’t exactly return them (he has too many things on his mind to think about it, and she frustrates him), but I don’t think this is what you were referring to, I just wanted to mention it.

However, after they meet in Troyes, they start to bond, and if anything Tristan did there comes across as irritated at her or disdainful, please tell me so I can change it. My whole point is that Delphine’s behavior (and also because of who her father is) is the reason Tristan does not treat her like peer/friend/someone he can trust. I’m starting to think that none of that made since, but regardless, yes, I’ll be talking to others about this and comparing y’alls thoughts.

The next thing I would like to quickly go over with you is Hugon. In my opinion, there is a difference between someone who is far from a nice person in a book, and a person who comes off as a complete jerk and has no depth. I hate the latter, but I’m fine with the former. The former is what Hugon was supposed to be for a lot of the book, but it appears you feel like he coming off as the latter. That was not my intention, so this is yet another question I will be asking others to get everyone’s thoughts on.

As for Hugon and the women specifically, I am quite possibly deluded, but I thought he was treating everyone–men and women–equally bad and mockingly. xD That was kinda his character flaw, and Adrienne’s death is what knocked him out of his wrong mindset. Thoughts?

Their reactions are often odd based on the situation. A specific instance I’m thinking of is the scene where Delphine stops Hugon on his way down.

This is the main point I would actually like to argue with you (all that other stuff was just me presenting my thought process). I’m pretty sure one is not supposed to argue things with their betas, but I can’t resist on this one point, so here we go. 🙂 This is why I think Delphine would not be nervous what so ever in that very specific circumstance:

  • She is the bold, curious, daughter of a lord
  • She is in a castle full of men-at-arms who will come at a call
  • Only paces away in the great hall is Tristan, her father, and all the other people at the feast
  • She is used to seeing servants scurry back and forth, and she might have just assumed that Tristan had order Hugon to do something if it weren’t for her high amount of curiosity

Do those points makes sense? Did I not present them well enough if the book? Is this all in my head and am I going mad? xD

Delphine, Adrienne, and Joelle are acting in ways that seem illogical to me. Specifically those three, because it’s about a specific thing.

Other those two times, are there any others? I very much would like to either fix them or ask other women about them.

I highly recommend you get other female beta readers to give their opinion on it and maybe ask your sisters.

I have four other teenage women reading it (Cathy included), so I’ll definitely be getting their thoughts on the female characters and the scenes you mentioned. Thanks again for taking the time to write all of that! 🙂

Is this just general research/curiosity or is it for a writing project? I don’t recall anything more than a passing mention in TTD.

It’s not for TTD.  I’m brainstorming and outlining a series, and two of the character are Jews or were Jews, so to research I went. So thanks for the sources and answers!

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