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#135799
Cathy
@this-is-not-an-alien

*bowls over with a hug!* Oh yes! Of course we’re still friends! Even closer friends now with everything we’re able to still discuss!
I think at the heart of it we simply disagree on the manner in which we’re perfected by faith and the duration of the existent of purgatory. I agree with your interpretation of Ephesians 2: 8-9 and Philippians 2:12; we are perfected in the measure that we love, and love is God’s grace He is Love, therefore we are saved only by accepting His Grace in our lives, and that our human nature, like the prodigal son, struggles with Christ’s Life in our souls.
I believe once in Heaven there is no more struggle and chancing and refinement because He has completed His creation then; we either reject or accept God. Obviously there’s no earning Grace and Mercy, only accepting and rejecting it.
So only on earth may we be refined? The old must pass away to the new incorruptible bodies and return to dust and in accepting Christ He perfects us. Yet because of our freewill He gave us and did not revoke, He will not force us to accept more than we do, but draws us to accept more and more each day so that He may perfect us more.
But when we’re in Heaven we’ll be finished and completely His. So either we die when we are completely perfected or we die imperfect and are transformed into perfection? Yet, if we don’t accept fully how can He mold us? Yet, if we die we cannot be molded further, it is finished? It seems to me there must be a place to be finished before we enter Heaven if we have not allowed Him to fully perfect us through our lack of submission to His Grace and Mercy.

You may already know this, but what you are doing by that practice is called “Biblical Hermeneutics”.  It is the very thing that the Apostle Paul charges Timothy to do, when in 2 Timothy 2:15, he charges him to “rightly dividing the word of truth.”

Oh I didn’t know it had a name! It’s just something I started doing whenever I discussed my Faith with someone and didn’t have all the answers to their questions (read every single discussion). I’m so glad that’s an actual method!

In those same verses, Peter makes mention in verse 19 of Christ going to preach “unto the spirits in prison” which is what I referred to both in the prophesy of it (Isaiah 26:19-21) and Christ’s fulfillment of it (Matthew 27:50-53 & Ephesians 4:7-10). Verse 22 tells us exactly where the bodily resurrected Christ is presently after His ascension. John 3:13 confirms this, Jesus says it Himself in John 20:17.

Why did He preach to them? If they were either damned or saved what was the need to exhort them to accept Christ? Wouldn’t He console them or condemn them instead?
I agree with your words on Revelations, that we are saved by Christ only because of His Sacrifice and no self-effort works.

We confess anything we do that break the harmony of fellowship with Him in our spirit. We recognize where we act not in accordance with our new nature, but allow the old nature to attempt to defeat us and make it so we are ashamed.  God desires harmony with our heart and mind.  We ask forgiveness for it and recognize what we do according to the old nature was wrong and God lifts the burden of it from our shoulders and reminds us of His forgiveness, just as a parent would by forgiving a repentant child who disobeyed what they knew their parent told them not to do.  Fellowship between parent and child is restored in that moment, but the naughty child, even in their disobedience, did not cease being the parent’s child. Romans 8:15 &23 (also in Galatians 4:5 & Ephesians 1:5) speaks of our being an adopted child. An adopted child is chosen by their prospective parents. In ancient law, an adopted child could never be disowned, even though a natural born child could be.

I agree wholeheartedly, even when the child is admonished for disobeying and must be disciplined by the parent, such a child would never cease to be the parent’s own regardless of any disobedience and strife they cause.
I didn’t know ancient law an adopted child could never be disowned even it a natural born one could, that’s so beautiful how Christ used that to demonstrate His Love for us that’s amazing!
Thank you for reasoning together with me, it always makes me so happy when I find someone who challenges me and disagrees without taking offense at the disagreement. And truly the only thing we need agree on is Jesus Christ <3

Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

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