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#129816
Cathy
@this-is-not-an-alien

Oooh, that’s a cool idea! What I’ve so far figured out about making your villain hatable is that they can and should have good characteristics. And charming will totally work. One of the best villains I have ever read was Prince Viridian from “Secrets of the Wild Wood”. He was charming, handsome, an excellent leader, and so, so convincing. He had a perfect, waterproof argument of why he was doing what he was doing. He was the only villain that actually convinced me and the MC that he was doing the right thing. (Only for a few minutes, but still!) But, he was still very much a villain. He was evil, and he did awful things. He would burn down kingdoms to get what he wanted, to reach his perfect goal. Oh, I’m rambling, aren’t I? I can’t help waxing slightly poetical over that book, it was so good! I think the point of view you tell it from makes a big difference. You need at least one character with a strong moral compass, that sees everything in black and white, even to extremes. Characters like that can really uproot the excuses and justification with a simple “But you did X, and your goal doesn’t excuse that!” It’s almost impossible to counter that. You can even just have a character think this, and that’ll make your villain sufficiently hateable. Keep harping on that one thing they did. That usually works for me.

Wow, that’s pretty awesome! I’ll have to look into that book, what was it about? And yes, POV is vital, I use a character with a very solid moral compass but he’s also really really empathetic so for the entire first half I’m hoping everyone’ll feel like it’s a redemption arc except the villain doesn’t change, instead he uses that character’s pity against him and–I am knocking very close to spoilers now XD. But yea, solid moral compass is a must even especially when looking at the ‘gray’ areas.

For my villains, I actually have way too many XD I have… *Mentally counts* Over two books, I have five main ones. And that’s not counting the antagonists. For villains, one thing that’s really stuck with me is ‘Hanlon’s razor’ (Weird name, I know XD) It states: “Never assume malice when sufficiently advanced ignorance will do as an explanation.” The first time I read that it kind of knocked the wind out of me since that’s really how it works. Ignorance causes more harm than malice, in general, and it’s far more common. Using that principle makes for really scary villains because you can see how that can happen. They seem human and sensible, and real. And they still do these horrible things and it’s terrifying.

Oh yeah! I’ve got *long pause…erhm* four…ish, right so most of the characters scale on the villain to antihero thing except the three main ones and even they it really questions circumstance vs actions vs duress. And definitely “sufficiently advanced ignorance” is really scary!!

You don’t read books with magic? Is it because real magic is bad or just most magic is a turn off for you? Both, to some degree, but mostly the first

Yea most books don’t handle magic well, it often leads to manipulation and power-plays making it seem ‘acceptable’ to curse people or talk to dead spirits and stuff yikes! But there’s some really good ones to that use ‘magic’ more like miracles for the good guys and makes a clear distinction between ‘magic’ magic and evil magic. And sometimes ‘magic’ is just ya’know not really magic so much as an element of high fantasy, just something that’s completely normal there like planes and cars are normal here, I don’t think that should be called magic usually but the name is bantered for convenience I guess.

High fantasy is any fantasy that is set in a world different from our own. Low fantasy is when fantasy elements are integrated into an alternate earth. And yes, I love political intrigue too, but only when I can follow along and see what everyone is doing. When it becomes a bunch of people discussing stuff for chapters on end, it feels a lot like checking off plot holes. “Nope, they can’t do Y because X, so that leaves us only one option, which the author clearly intended anyway and I was just bringing all this up so the fans can’t accuse the author of not taking an easier way.”

Bah! Phooey on those! There’s an art to turning information dumps into active scenes…a very…very…fine…art. *Is working on that XD*. But there’s so many like subplots that can be there just to demonstrate each character and the information applicably so nobody forgets it or in a way that everybody forgets it until you bring it up again to the audience’s/MC’s absolute horror. But yea, for a complex novel-series I’m beginning to learn that the first books or at least the first half must establish world-building in more-or-less relevant subplots. There absolutely must be a ‘normal’ established before the ‘real’ adventure begins.

Yes! I loved that movie, and they did that so well! Imagine what would have happened if the entire movie had been about Mater losing all his characteristic traits in the name of ‘character development’. *Shudders* That would have been beyond terrible! He was awesome just the way he was and if you think about it, nobody except Mater could have handled those situations. I love it when characters end up having to embrace the parts of themselves that they don’t like, or that are frowned upon by others. And when they use those traits to solve problems in ways nobody else could! *Happy sigh*

Exactly!!! Ya’know, most Catholics see saints as ‘extraordinary’ and ‘somber’ and like marble statues of goodness but if ya actually read their lives like I’ve never met a dull saint, every saint I’ve ever read about is sooo witty and quirky and just like crazy. I think one of the most deceptive tactics the devil uses is trying to make us think that loving God destroys individuality but in fact the people who love God the most are the most individual, authentic, wildly impractically creative people ever! So, I mean, people try and get us to conform but God likes Maters and Ehuds and Liorahs!

Don't let the voices in your head drive you insane;only some of them can drive; most are underage

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